Shocks/Struts recommendations:

[Speedboosted]

Koni yellow adjustability is not a gimmick. There is significant change in ride comfort, and there is enough difference in cornering grip and composure to notice if you know what to look for. This is at cornering levels beyond where most people's daily driving lives, when you're at least beginning to make the suspension work a bit.

Dial it down for a better ride, up for autocross/road course/canyon running. It's a five-minute job to reset all four including the time it takes to open the hood and trunk (or back seats) and run around the car.


If there's any 'negative' about the yellows, it's that they probably don't tolerate big amounts of lowering very well. Then again, if it's a slammed appearance you're going for, serious corner-carving probably isn't your thing.


Norm

I haven't seen that last part is true at all. Plenty of people without "slammed" cars pull them off and they are dead, or very near death. I gave my Bilsteins 2 years of hard life and they had just as strong rebound and compression when I pulled them off as they did when I installed them. Plenty of cases where Koni's are dead after this timeframe.

If I remember correctly, you ran your Koni's with stock springs? Interesting tactic for performance. Did you finally add lowering springs to them? As you know, it's a flawed design with twin tube internals and an OEM length housing.

You are correct about the ease of adjustment, my MCS are the same way and it's awesome! I'm not here to nut-swing my favorite damper on somebody. I didn't suggest that his only option is a $3k+ set of coil overs and anything less is trash. But the fact is, if you're going to spend $600-800 on a set of shocks for performance, it's silly to not buy Bilsteins.

 

[Speedboosted]

I completely agree with Norm on this. Plus adjusting the Koni's are the only thing that you can easily do at the track or autocross to adjust or fine tune the car's balance.

Tire pressures.

 

[Pentalab]

I haven't seen that last part is true at all. Plenty of people without "slammed" cars pull them off and they are dead, or very near death. I gave my Bilsteins 2 years of hard life and they had just as strong rebound and compression when I pulled them off as they did when I installed them. Plenty of cases where Koni's are dead after this timeframe.

If I remember correctly, you ran your Koni's with stock springs? Interesting tactic for performance. Did you finally add lowering springs to them? As you know, it's a flawed design with twin tube internals and an OEM length housing.

You are correct about the ease of adjustment, my MCS are the same way and it's awesome! I'm not here to nut-swing my favorite damper on somebody. I didn't suggest that his only option is a $3k+ set of coil overs and anything less is trash. But the fact is, if you're going to spend $600-800 on a set of shocks for performance, it's silly to not buy Bilsteins.

Look at some of the coil overs offered by Vorshlag and others. A 2++ inch drop on all 4 x corners is not uncommon on those coil over setups. IMO, anything over 1.75" is slammed...but maybe I don't know what slammed really is. The Koni lifetime warranty is a bit of a misnomer. Send the strut / shock back to koni. They get around to looking at it in 8+ weeks, then decide to either fix it, replace it, or deny your claim. In the meantime you are dead in the water.....so you just buy another koni shock / strut.

Will Koni even honor a warranty with their shocks / struts.... IF the car has been lowered ??? I can easily see Koni denying a claim based on the use of lowering springs. IF they don't last that long, and they do honor their warranty, then you may as well buy 4 x shocks and 4 x struts, 2 x complete setups. The you have new spares on hand at all times. One goes bad, swap it with a known good spare...then send the bad one back to Koni for a warranty claim.

That would work, albeit you have to provide your own labor to remove and replace.... or pay someone to do it for you. Then toss in the shipping costs for both directions.. for the defective item. Then toss in the cost of buying a complete 2nd set of shocks + struts..( + shipping for 2nd set).

At that point the Bilsteins are probably looking like a bargain.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I haven't seen that last part is true at all. Plenty of people without "slammed" cars pull them off and they are dead, or very near death.

Early on, lowering was mentioned a number of times. This is going back at least 8 years.

Koni had other problems with S197 yellows - my order was held up while Koni fixed a problem with the sta-bar attachments on the struts. I may have gotten one of the first sets of struts that got the "fix".

I gave my Bilsteins 2 years of hard life and they had just as strong rebound and compression when I pulled them off as they did when I installed them. Plenty of cases where Koni's are dead after this timeframe.

If only they were adjustable. I've used Bils before, and her LGT rides on a set with rather different valving (and very limited production).

If I remember correctly, you ran your Koni's with stock springs? Interesting tactic for performance.

Yes. Though I did have a whole laundry-list of modifications planned for it even before I ordered it (including Vogtland springs). But once I realized that this car was still a street-driven car with maybe the occasional autocross thrown in, I put the whole list on hold except for the cold air & tune and let the car try to tell me what it needed for my driving. A "sneak up on it" approach rather than simply throwing the checkbook at it and not bothering to understand the 'why' behind any of the choices. I can't say that that approach has turned out badly.

On 285/35-18 MPSS tires that already had several track days on them, from the second event after almost a year off ↓↓↓

Did you finally add lowering springs to them?

Sort of (making the car lower wasn't even a secondary reason, so I don't think of them in any 'lowering' context). What I chose was the firmest set of "big springs" (as opposed to small-diameter C/O springs) from the BMR catalog for any S197 (GT500 Handling springs), specifically for their rates. So I got less lowering than was advertised for the considerably heavier GT500. And I still did a little shimming of the rear springs, because the roughly 1-1/8" lowering back there was too much for me for more reasons than just concerns about bottoming the Konis. I've still got a little experimenting left to do with sta-bar and shock/strut settings to suit the different front:rear spring balance.

Even on an appearance basis I much prefer 'subtle', and half an inch in the suspension and another half inch in the tire radius does this nicely.

As you know, it's a flawed design with twin tube internals and an OEM length housing.

I won't ever lower this car so far that OE shock lengths would be inappropriate. Ever. It's still a DD, or as much of a DD as being a retiree like me needs any car to be. I don't think twin-tubes are all bad. Mine made over 6 years and 30,000 miles or so, plus track time, and hadn't lost all that much damping (I still didn't need to crank them all the way up for composure at the track). I should explain that was the first set of Konis - one of the rears had started seeping at the adjustment so I got another set of the same. I might look into getting set #1 revalved some day.


I've looked into coilovers more than once, but I am not going to lower my car any further than it is now which takes several of those out of consideration from the get-go. Removes any need to eliminate the bump stops, too. I'd still need convincing that C/O's don't need boots to protect the strut/shock shafts from debris/moisture/road salt/etc.

But the fact is, if you're going to spend $600-800 on a set of shocks for performance, it's silly to not buy Bilsteins.

If only they were adjustable for about the same $.


Norm

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

I haven't seen that last part is true at all. Plenty of people without "slammed" cars pull them off and they are dead, or very near death. I gave my Bilsteins 2 years of hard life and they had just as strong rebound and compression when I pulled them off as they did when I installed them. Plenty of cases where Koni's are dead after this timeframe.

If I remember correctly, you ran your Koni's with stock springs? Interesting tactic for performance. Did you finally add lowering springs to them? As you know, it's a flawed design with twin tube internals and an OEM length housing.

You are correct about the ease of adjustment, my MCS are the same way and it's awesome! I'm not here to nut-swing my favorite damper on somebody. I didn't suggest that his only option is a $3k+ set of coil overs and anything less is trash. But the fact is, if you're going to spend $600-800 on a set of shocks for performance, it's silly to not buy Bilsteins.

After reading over your post, I'm not quite sure where you're coming from regarding the Koni yellow adj struts/shocks as a flawed design? IIRC the Koni adj yellows are designed/valved for lowered applications while also compatible with OEM spring heights as well. For my particular application, I run the Koni yellows with Eibach Pro-Kit Springs lowered approx 1.3" (front) and approx 1.5" (rear) My only complaint with the Koni yellows is even when adjusted at the full soft settings, I notice a harsher ride quality when on uneven road surfaces in which I'll feel every single road imperfection, especially when going over bumps, but also experienced the same harsh ride quality before upgrading from the "OEM" dampers to the Koni yellows with just the Eibach Pro-Springs. So it's quite possible it could be the progressive spring rates of the Eibach Pro Springs along with the low profile 275/35/20 Nitto G2 tires that may be causing the ride quality issues? However other than that, the Koni yellows appear to be working out just fine after nearly 2 years with no other issues or complaints. It's also from my understanding that Eibach offers the Koni yellow dampers along with their Pro-Kit Springs as a package. Therefore you would think if the Koni yellows were not designed nor properly valved for lowered applications, then why would Eibach include them as part of their lowering spring kits, to begin with? At any rate, I'm not attempting to bash Bilstein in any way nor discredit the info you've provided at all, but rather just seeking further info from you as far as the Koni dampers having a flawed design to them and also the differences between twin tube internal with OEM length housing and single monotube design

 

[Pentalab]

After reading over your post, I'm not quite sure where you're coming from regarding the Koni yellow adj struts/shocks as a flawed design? IIRC the Koni adj yellows are designed/valved for lowered applications while also compatible with OEM spring heights as well. For my particular application, I run the Koni yellows with Eibach Pro-Kit Springs lowered approx 1.3" (front) and approx 1.5" (rear) My only complaint with the Koni yellows is even when adjusted at the full soft settings, I notice a harsher ride quality when on uneven road surfaces in which I'll feel every single road imperfection, especially when going over bumps, but also experienced the same harsh ride quality before upgrading from the "OEM" dampers to the Koni yellows with just the Eibach Pro-Springs. So it's quite possible it could be the progressive spring rates of the Eibach Pro Springs along with the low profile 275/35/20 Nitto G2 tires that may be causing the ride quality issues?

The compression on the koni yellows is a LOT more than the oem struts /shocks.. (ditto with Bilsteins) That's why you still feel every bump and imperfection on the road. When you hit a bump, that's compression, and you feel it with koni yellows. There's nothing you can do about it either. Setting the struts /shocks ... to full soft just sets the rebound to full soft. Stiffer springs (regardless of spring height) , and lower sidewall tires, just adds to the problem when initially hitting bumps.

The FRPP adjustable struts /shocks adjust both the compression + rebound simultaneously. But the FRPP units have a smaller range for the compression... vs the rebound range. IE: for a given tweak on the adjustment, the rebound will increase / decrease at a faster rate than the compression. Some folks have complained that when they find a good compression setting, the rebound is not optimum. When they tweak for a good rebound setting, the compression is outa whack. I have not used the FRPP units nor the koni yellows. Real coil overs with independent compression / rebound settings would be the ticket, albeit expensive...esp for DD use.

 

[stevbd]

I've put a lot of miles on both Koni Yellows and Bilsteins, although not on the same car. IMO the adjustability of the Konis is kind of cool and it does make a noticeable difference in handling. But the quality doesn't seem as good as the Bilsteins, the "lifetime warranty" is kind of a joke, and the impact harshness on sharp bumps I find annoying. The Bilsteins just seem like a sturdier, better product, and I like how the digressive valving takes the edge off of sharp and fast impacts, although they are still firm. One annoying thing about the Bilsteins is every set I've had seems to raise the car just a little, although in fairness this is a disputed subject. Overall I prefer the Bilsteins but both much better than stock.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

The compression on the koni yellows is a LOT more than the oem struts /shocks.. (ditto with Bilsteins) That's why you still feel every bump and imperfection on the road. When you hit a bump, that's compression, and you feel it with koni yellows. There's nothing you can do about it either. Setting the struts /shocks ... to full soft just sets the rebound to full soft. Stiffer springs (regardless of spring height) , and lower sidewall tires, just adds to the problem when initially hitting bumps.

The FRPP adjustable struts /shocks adjust both the compression + rebound simultaneously. But the FRPP units have a smaller range for the compression... vs the rebound range. IE: for a given tweak on the adjustment, the rebound will increase / decrease at a faster rate than the compression. Some folks have complained that when they find a good compression setting, the rebound is not optimum. When they tweak for a good rebound setting, the compression is outa whack. I have not used the FRPP units nor the koni yellows. Real coil overs with independent compression / rebound settings would be the ticket, albeit expensive...esp for DD use.

As I previously mentioned, prior to upgrading to the Konis, I also experienced ride harshness issues with just the Eibach Pro-Springs, Nitto G2 275/35/20's and stock struts/shocks. Since upgrading to the Konis, they most definitely improved my car's handling abilities but did very little for improving the ride quality issues over the "OEM" shocks/struts. Therefore if stiffer springs along with lower sidewall tires just adds to the problem as you mentioned and also as I've suspected all along? it would appear as though the progressive rated Eibach Pro-Kit Springs and lower sidewall Nitto G2 275/35/20" tires are also contributing factors as well. So in your honest opinion, would making the switch to tires that provide a taller sidewall help improve the ride quality issues or just not worth bothering with? However, if making the switch might help, I'm looking into buying a set of "OEM" 18x9.5 GT500 wheels from a friend of mine for $600.00 including the original "OEM" 255/45/18" tires (front) and 285/40/18" tires (rear) also keep in mind, I'd be replacing the front 255/45/18's with 285/40/18 in order to run as a square setup. At any rate, I'm currently not looking to replace the Eibach Pro-Kit Springs at this time, and reinstalling the "OEM" springs is most definitely out of the question. That being said, it would appear my only other options are to either upgrade to a taller sidewall tire or upgrade from the Koni yellows to Bilstein or perhaps even both if necessary

I've put a lot of miles on both Koni Yellows and Bilsteins, although not on the same car. IMO the adjustability of the Konis is kind of cool and it does make a noticeable difference in handling. But the quality doesn't seem as good as the Bilsteins, the "lifetime warranty" is kind of a joke, and the impact harshness on sharp bumps I find annoying. The Bilsteins just seem like a sturdier, better product, and I like how the digressive valving takes the edge off of sharp and fast impacts, although they are still firm. One annoying thing about the Bilsteins is every set I've had seems to raise the car just a little, although in fairness this is a disputed subject. Overall I prefer the Bilsteins but both much better than stock.

I most definitely find the impact harshness on sharp bumps with the Koni yellows as annoying as well, but also like how they do provide a noticeable difference in handling. Therefore I'm hoping that upgrading from 275/35/20's to 285/40/18's may provide a noticeable improvement in ride quality due to running tires which have a taller sidewall

 

[Speedboosted]

Early on, lowering was mentioned a number of times. This is going back at least 8 years.

Koni had other problems with S197 yellows - my order was held up while Koni fixed a problem with the sta-bar attachments on the struts. I may have gotten one of the first sets of struts that got the "fix".



If only they were adjustable. I've used Bils before, and her LGT rides on a set with rather different valving (and very limited production).



Yes. Though I did have a whole laundry-list of modifications planned for it even before I ordered it (including Vogtland springs). But once I realized that this car was still a street-driven car with maybe the occasional autocross thrown in, I put the whole list on hold except for the cold air & tune and let the car try to tell me what it needed for my driving. A "sneak up on it" approach rather than simply throwing the checkbook at it and not bothering to understand the 'why' behind any of the choices. I can't say that that approach has turned out badly.

On 285/35-18 MPSS tires that already had several track days on them, from the second event after almost a year off ↓↓↓

Sort of (making the car lower wasn't even a secondary reason, so I don't think of them in any 'lowering' context). What I chose was the firmest set of "big springs" (as opposed to small-diameter C/O springs) from the BMR catalog for any S197 (GT500 Handling springs), specifically for their rates. So I got less lowering than was advertised for the considerably heavier GT500. And I still did a little shimming of the rear springs, because the roughly 1-1/8" lowering back there was too much for me for more reasons than just concerns about bottoming the Konis. I've still got a little experimenting left to do with sta-bar and shock/strut settings to suit the different front:rear spring balance.

Even on an appearance basis I much prefer 'subtle', and half an inch in the suspension and another half inch in the tire radius does this nicely.



I won't ever lower this car so far that OE shock lengths would be inappropriate. Ever. It's still a DD, or as much of a DD as being a retiree like me needs any car to be. I don't think twin-tubes are all bad. Mine made over 6 years and 30,000 miles or so, plus track time, and hadn't lost all that much damping (I still didn't need to crank them all the way up for composure at the track). I should explain that was the first set of Konis - one of the rears had started seeping at the adjustment so I got another set of the same. I might look into getting set #1 revalved some day.


I've looked into coilovers more than once, but I am not going to lower my car any further than it is now which takes several of those out of consideration from the get-go. Removes any need to eliminate the bump stops, too. I'd still need convincing that C/O's don't need boots to protect the strut/shock shafts from debris/moisture/road salt/etc.



If only they were adjustable for about the same $.


Norm

This post gave me a lot of insight into your decision making process which I can appreciate. I use the term lowering springs to refer to those oriented towards performance and not all out drop.

As for coil overs without dust boots, I've been reassured by many including Stuart at Maxcyspeed where I bought mine that the seals are so tight and sharp that they aren't needed. I will still try and find some in the near future to at least run during the offseason while on the street.