Skwerl's first hot rod

[KyleB]

Well crap, I already have the longest one then, so much for that idea

Where did you get your idlers?

 

[skwerl]

Actually I swiped an extra idler off a broken belt tensioner at my buddy's repair shop. It was going in the garbage anyway so I grabbed it as a spare. 6 months later I needed it.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I was thinking there was a few different roush belts for the m90, I remember seeing different part numbers for different years. I think they where different sizes as well. Maybe I can get away with one of those. Anyone know what they where?

I got the lengths and part numbers in my home computer. I'll post them up when I get home!!

You know you don't need to run all the idlers...find a combo that works.

 

[Pentalab]

Tell me about it. Driving on street tires is like driving on ice (when throttle is concerned)!!



Actually Skwerl, its not HP that's the problem...its the TQ.

If you increase the TQ at 2k rpm by 50%.... the HP at 2k rpm will also increase by 50%. (TQ is work. HP is the rate of work being done. )

The point here is sales folks like to point out the car makes XXX HP...and YYY TQ. They forgot to tell you they cherry picked points on the graphs.....like max RPM for max hp. But only 2/3 of max rpm for max tq. The only reason the hp increases beyond 2/3 of redline is.... the rpm is going up at a faster rate than the TQ is falling off.

So whether you talk about hp from idle to redline ...... or tq from idle to redline is really a moot point. If you increase the TQ at any given rpm by "X"..the hp at the SAME rpm will also increase by "X".

With the stock M90.... the tires spin in 1st gear...and you get a really hard pull in 2nd gear. 3rd gear you get a pull, but it's not hard at all. You don't get any pull at all in 4th gear. And in 5th gear, you may as well get out and walk.

Crank up the hp/tq.....so you now get a hard pull in 3-4-5th gears..and then you have excess TQ in 1st + 2nd gears. It's a tradeoff of sorts with a street car....and drivability. With 500-600 rwhp.... my guess is a 3.73 / 3.90 / 4.10 rear gear is too low for typ street use. The 13-14 GT-500 uses a 3.31 rear gear.

Too bad Nitto didn't make a 305-40-18 rear tire... but in a NT-555 format. DR's are another option.

After installing LT's, twin 62mm TB, 94 octane tune, DSS-DS, the stock M90 with 6 psi..and oem 73mm pulley made one helluva lot of difference. The car is no longer a slug in 3rd gear.... it pulls harder in all gears. But it needs just a bit more....so in goes the TVS-1900.

Jimbo

 

[Pentalab]

My 1.9L TVS install is almost done, except my stock belt won't fit. It is about an inch to short with the 10% OD lower. What belt are you running skwerl? pentalab? any others?

Congrats on the TVS-1900. However if you want to spin the TVS-1900 to insane rpms.... why not use the TVS-2300 instead ? You could get the same cfm..with a lot lower blower speed...and lower blower outlet temps.

I'm going to use the 85mm pulley on the TVS-1900...at least to begin with. (6.6" oem crank pulley will be left alone). If that doesn't do the job..then I will try the 82mm pulley. With both the 85/82mm pulley, Justin tells me that the oem 75mm idler (below the blower pulley) is retained. Once you go down to the 79mm blower pulley, then the 90mm idler is used.

With a 10% /12% OD crank pulley.... then you run into the belt length issues....which is what I was trying to avoid.

Jimbo

 

[skwerl]

Actually we are discovering that the TVS1900 seems to move a lot more air than its size would indicate since the intake is 25% bigger than the 2300. Justin has also been messing around with some porting ideas but my misfire issue prevented us from getting a good pull with the race tune. We will try again soon, but in essence if you aren't planning on pushing 18-20 lbs of boost then the TVS1900 and good heads will get you just as much power as the 2300.

Jimbo, I was running the 75mm (I think) on the stock engine/stock exhaust and pushing 505 to the rear wheels.

 

[Pentalab]

Actually we are discovering that the TVS1900 seems to move a lot more air than its size would indicate since the intake is 25% bigger than the 2300. Justin has also been messing around with some porting ideas but my misfire issue prevented us from getting a good pull with the race tune. We will try again soon, but in essence if you aren't planning on pushing 18-20 lbs of boost then the TVS1900 and good heads will get you just as much power as the 2300.

Jimbo, I was running the 75mm (I think) on the stock engine/stock exhaust and pushing 505 to the rear wheels.

Good to know. Ok, if you had to do this all again...with a built motor, would you still use the higher performance cams as well.... or just the better heads ? I can see how the higher performance cams, with longer duration etc would flow more..... but they all seem to be optimized for a certain rpm range. IMO, I wouldn't want the rough idle. It's a street car 1st.

The twirly rotor's on the 1900 are the same diam as the 2300. The 2300 is just a longer version of a 1900. They both have the same 160 deg twist for their respective lengths.

VMP had the 1900 casing custom made....which is where I believe the 25% bigger inlet came from. PD blower's are sensitive to any intake restrictions.....esp with higher boost.

Let us all know what is causing the misfire. 700rwhp with a TVS-1900 and built eng + 100 octane gas is superb. At least you have the option of lower boost and pump gas for summertime use. Yikes.... I see it's 75deg F at 10 pm est...in Miami Beach...and 74% humidity. When does your drag race season start and finish ? It must be stifling in summer.

Jimbo

 

[skwerl]

I usually only go drag racing in the winter, too hot in the summer and the car is much slower. Tracks are open 12 months a year here.

I simply made a poor choice on the cams. Many people said these cams were no good for supercharged applications but Justin said they were fine and he could make them work. They do work, but I really miss the lost low end torque. I spend a lot more time navigating parking lots at idle speeds than I do running at 6Krpm. I'm also having difficulty even identifying when the engine is missing because of the rough idle. I'm stuck where I can't move forward because of the issue but can't identify the issue. If I didn't have the cams then I could more easily identify the engine miss (if it's still there). Who knows, it could have been a loose wire that is already fixed?

 

[AutoXRacer]

If you want an aggressive cam without the lopey idle issues, then 127450 is for you!!
This is the cam I have to install in my rebuild. I previously had the 127300s which are very good IMO, but I wanted something a little more aggressive with the new heads...without the sub-2,000 RPM issues. As I cruise at 1,600 RPM on the highways.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I was thinking there was a few different roush belts for the m90, I remember seeing different part numbers for different years. I think they where different sizes as well. Maybe I can get away with one of those. Anyone know what they where?

[FONT=&quot]Belt[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lengths:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2005/2006 FEAD M90 belt: RPP# R07020015 -13-AA / PN 401967 / 131.732" (delta: 0”) - (0.906”)

2007/2008 FEAD M90 belt: RPP# R07020032-13-AA / PN 402065 / 132.441" (delta: 0.709”) - (0.197”)

2009/2010 FEAD M90 belt: RPP# R07020063-13-AA / PN 404078 / 132.638" (delta: 0.906”) - (0”)[/FONT]

 

[BadPiggy]

I'm calling dibs on your overdrive pulley if you decide to remove/sell it!

 

[KyleB]

Bad piggy - autox has one

 

[AutoXRacer]

Bad piggy - autox has one

Damn, I was about to post that... LOL

Thanks Kyle!!

 

[skwerl]

Drove the car for the first time in several days today. Still haven't gotten the new wheel yet but my mechanic suggested swapping the front wheels to see if the pull might be tire related. I did that and it drove fine, so I think the front suspension should be ok. I'll still have it checked out when I get the new wheel though. The shop will swap over the TPS to the new wheel and then throw it on the alignment rack.

After a few days driving my stock pickup I was once again reminded of just how much I hate trying to deal with the horrible behavior of my car at low rpm. I decided today that the Hot rod cams are fucking GONE! I don't know what's going in to replace them but I'm over it. I miss being able to take off from a stop without touching the gas pedal, and I'm sick of 160 degree intake air temps on the gauge. I need to do some serious research on cams because I don't understand anything about them (other than the very basic concept of how they work). I want a cam that retains 100% or more of low rpm power and torque. If it adds power up top then that's just a bonus, but it will have to deliver below 2000rpm. I've already sent a PM to Livernois since they are the company that built the heads so they should have some ideas on what cams work best with their setup.

 

[one eyed willy]

Don't know how well they would work with your set up but I'm very happy with my 127300 and they drive like stock, they have a slight lope at idle but dosnt effect drive ability at all. Couldn't tell you what they would do to your IAT's.

 

[lethe]

I have their stage 3 blower cams and don't have any low RPM drivability problems. I can't say anything about wether or not they have less power down low though.

 

[stkjock]

Talk to Mike at L&M IMHO, he's got crazy skills with cam designs, he works the whole lobe in his designs.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Don't know how well they would work with your set up but I'm very happy with my 127300 and they drive like stock, they have a slight lope at idle but dosnt effect drive ability at all. Couldn't tell you what they would do to your IAT's.

These are the ones I was running before I tore the motor apart.
100% stock driveability with extra power!!!

I categorize them as a mild street cam; although this is how Comp Cams describes them:

SOHC-(Stage 2) Serious street cam, noticeable idle. Solid power gains above 4600 rpm, requires spring upgrade. Works with tuners, tuning recommended. Best with 3.90 gears & 3000 stall

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=976&sb=1

The "noticeable" idle is nothing to worry about. Its just a tick aggressive over stock, meaning you can't really tell its cammed. All you can tell is that its not stock. lol

You can totally ease off the clutch without throttle input as this is how I street drive. You will love these cams. Although I will admit they are way too mild to take advantage of your heads. I mean you are running "race" heads which call for "race" cams. LOL

Like I said before, I decided to move up to the 127450 cams which are slightly more aggressive. The "noticeable" idle again is slightly more aggressive than the 127300, but no where near to the same world has hot rods or 127550s. These will also drive just like stock from idle.

I think you would be very happy with the 127300s or the 127450s.

Comp Cams 127450:

SOHC-(Blower Grind, Stage 1) Powerful cam with great idle, excellent upgrade over stock. Good torque down low with powerful mid-range. Solid power gains above 4500 rpm, requires spring & phaser upgrade. Custom tuning required. OK with stock gears.

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=982&sb=0

Just for reference here are a couple of videos to give you an idea of their idle:

127300


127450


Obviously exhaust setups will alter the sound. But you get the lopey idea. lol

 

[GallopingFord]

Talk to Mike at L&M IMHO, he's got crazy skills with cam designs, he works the whole lobe in his designs.

^This. I talked to Mike a couple times on the phone and he knows it all.

 

[skwerl]

Wow, thanks guys. I can always count on the S197 crew for solid input. I just finished filling out the Comp Cams recommendation request form online (had to look up all sorts of engine specs) and come back to several good posts. I'll get their recommendation and call Mike at L&M as well.