Suspension Help for a newb

[TRC51]

Hello gang,

Hoping you can help me out. Some history about me before I ask. I am a former motorcycle road racer who is just starting out in the car scene. Always wanted a hot car, but motorcycles have been my passion for a long time. Two kids (and some drama) later and motorcycle racing is not looking to be something I can continue. I still have a bike, but it's hard to carry a family of four on it. So I decided to buy a car and try my hand at autocrossing (a lot less travel to tracks as well). Coming from motorcycle racing I have some mechanical and suspension knowledge (not enough to give advice, but enough to tinker). My goal is to setup the car to maximize all around duty (commute, car show, autocross, kid hauler, etc).


I recently bought a 2008 Bullitt that has been lowered with the following setup. The seller claimed it had the FR3 suspension on it, but really it looks like whoever put it on put their own parts together to equal the kit. The car looks to have Ford Racing sway bars and lowering springs (1.5" front and back). However, the shocks are Koni Adjustable and the struts are Koni non-adjustable. The question is... is there any "black art" reason why someone would NOT go adjustable in the front if already going adjustable in the rear? The car does have a Roush blower on it, so I was thinking it had to do with the weight of the blower... but wouldn't adjustable still be better? Also the car has a stock panhard bar and LCA's. Car is running the stock tires and bullitt 18" wheels.

With that in mind, my plan is to occassionaly run this car in autocross and maybe a track day. Can someone give me some suggestions on how to improve on my current setup for a nice street comfort/autocross performance combination? The questions:

1) I believe my first step is to get an adjustable panhard bar and possibly some adjustable LCA's. Should I start somewhere else instead?

2) Should I throw out the Koni's and get Tokiko's, Ford racing or some other adjustable suspension?

3) How (if at all) does the blower affect question 2?

4) How much benfit do you see from a coil over setup?

5) The car has the stock 18's. Will these be good for use as an autocross wheel? My intentions were to buy a set of 19's or 20's for bling bling use and then have an autocross setup on the stockers.

6) How far should/can I go with the suspension before it starts getting uncomfortable on the street (subjective I know)? Or... am I already there?


I will have plenty more questions to ask about the setup of the suspension, but I have to start with the correct equipment IMO. I am the type of guy who likes to set things up with the right equipment the first time and not half-a$$ it. At the same time, I am not looking to go so far as throwing in a Watts link.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Travis

 

[Sleeper_08]

If you are going to autocross the car then are you concerned about how the modifications you make affect your class?

 

[stang389]

Sam Strano and. Few others are the kings of auto x I would give him a ring very helpful guy I would say the konis are by far better than the other two I would get the panhard and just some bbr or bmr lower control arms and an upper control arm possibly caster camber plates to help you set it up as aggressive as you want. You are close to making it uncomfortable I run h&r coilover and steeda race lcas and my ride blows. Upgrade brakes! One of the weakest things on these cars

 

[jayel579]

There is no one way to setting up a car, it really depends on your desires. You have stated what you are looking for out of the car but the better answer is what does the car do that you do not like.

As stated above Sam Strano, he will get you in the right direction

 

[Sam Strano]

I'm happy to help... It's a little involved to be trying to do by e-mail though.

The blower is going to to screw you on competitive classing for autox. And it adds weight. But it's there and I doubt coming off.

Why does it have Koni non-adjustables up front? I'd guess just because of the limited availability of the Sports for the front when he wanted to change them or money. Those are the only two reasons I can fathom.

LCA's, maybe we'll change them, maybe not, depends on what they car is up to.

A Watts link is a huge improvement over ANY panhard bar, but I carry lots of PHB's too.

It's funny you ask about coil-overs but then say no Watts link. The Watts makes more difference than "coil-overs" which are not magic--they are springs and dampers that just happen to give you adjustable ride height. And they cost more than a Watts link too!

 

[TRC51]

Ok... some quick answers.

The blower was installed on the car when I bought it and I have no intention of taking if off. That said, I don't care about class because I have pretty much already crushed any thoughts of a stock class or lightly modified class (if there is one).

Brakes have been upgraded. Drilled and slotted rotors with hawk pads. I believe the calipers are still stock.

Should I get the adjustable Koni struts to match? That would allow me to optimize... I suppose I could wait and see.

 

[Vapour Trails]

I would look at tires first. You're going to need wide and sticky rubber.

My personal opinion is autocrossing with a very powerful S197 is pointless and frustrating unless you have R-compound tires (Hoosier A6 or Kumho V710). You simply cannot get street tires sticky or wide enough to make use of the power, or deal with the mass of the vehicle.

 

[TRC51]

I'm happy to help... It's a little involved to be trying to do by e-mail though.

The blower is going to to screw you on competitive classing for autox. And it adds weight. But it's there and I doubt coming off.

HAH... you called out what I was thinking in my reply above.

Why does it have Koni non-adjustables up front? I'd guess just because of the limited availability of the Sports for the front when he wanted to change them or money. Those are the only two reasons I can fathom.

LCA's, maybe we'll change them, maybe not, depends on what they car is up to.

A Watts link is a huge improvement over ANY panhard bar, but I carry lots of PHB's too.

It's funny you ask about coil-overs but then say no Watts link. The Watts makes more difference than "coil-overs" which are not magic--they are springs and dampers that just happen to give you adjustable ride height. And they cost more than a Watts link too!

Maybe it was the limited availability then, cause he didn't seem to cheese out on anything else on the car. The blower was installed by Jack Roush Racing and Jack even signed the car. Are Konis a "premium" shock (peferred over most)? I hear/read a lot about Tokikos... which is why I am asking.

What's a Watts cost then.... and will it change the ride in the positive, negative, or not all (just handling) perspective? So just adjustable LCA's then? What would be the benefit for non-adjustable LCA's over stock?

As for coil-overs, I asked because I was curious for the reason you stated.... I didn't see where the big benefit was (my ignorance). Appreciate the clarification.

And I really appreciate everyones willingness to help out. Thanks!


So it looks like Koni sport struts are going to be on the Christmas list. I think I need to decide what is critical to get me started and then make additions to the basic setup as I determine where improvements are needed. Start with the whether or not I can justify the watts. LOL

 

[TRC51]

I would look at tires first. You're going to need wide and sticky rubber.

My personal opinion is autocrossing with a very powerful S197 is pointless and frustrating unless you have R-compound tires (Hoosier A6 or Kumho V710). You simply cannot get street tires sticky or wide enough to make use of the power, or deal with the mass of the vehicle.

No problem. That is definitely in the plan. But this also takes me back to one of my original questions... what tires can I run on the stock Bullitt 18's.... and will they be a wide enough rim to suit my needs? Are guys running staggared setups to autox? I would really like to have a street and autox separate from each other, which is why I thought of running the stock setup.

 

[Vapour Trails]

No problem. That is definitely in the plan. But this also takes me back to one of my original questions... what tires can I run on the stock Bullitt 18's.... and will they be a wide enough rim to suit my needs? Are guys running staggared setups to autox? I would really like to have a street and autox separate from each other, which is why I thought of running the stock setup.

How wide are they? 8.5? You need at least 275 mm tread, which should run on at least 9" wide wheels.

I would run a square tire setup, no stagger. 275 or 285 all around.

 

[TRC51]

How wide are they? 8.5? You need at least 275 mm tread, which should run on at least 9" wide wheels.

I would run a square tire setup, no stagger. 275 or 285 all around.

99% sure they are 8.5, but maybe someone with some better knowledge can clarify for us. That would toss out the stocker wheels... unless I can shoehorn a 275 on an 8.5. Think I could get away with a 255.... with a blower on there? I see understeer and oversteer in my future.

EDIT:

OK, so a 275 will fit according the thread below... but I think we are talking about two different applications.... thoughts anyone?

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22783&highlight=Stock+bullitt+rim+width

 

[Sam Strano]

TRC51... call me, I can answer all those questions.

Here is the thing with trying to do it this way. It's practically impossible to cover all the options with explanations. It's just too time consuming to be typing it all out, then asking questions, and answering them. Just much more efficient and accurate to do it via a discussion.

FWIW, when you have a choice, you'd not want to be only on a stock sized rim.

 

[stang389]

U can run 275s but you will get a better contact patch with 275s on a 9 inch wide rim

 

[stang389]

First go drive the car and get use to it on the track then modify from there

 

[jayel579]

That would toss out the stocker wheels... unless I can shoehorn a 275 on an 8.5

You can put almost any size you want on a rim, you will only end up with so much tire on the ground. I run 275/40r17 on my 17x8s, the Shelby GT guys (i.e. Sam) put 295s on 18x8.5s

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

First go drive the car and get use to it on the track then modify from there

+1 know your car as its currently setup so when you add new performance parts you can better appreciate and understand how they improve the overall performance of your car on a road course or auto-x. However, there are some 'basic' mods that should be considered that Sam can walk you through. Think of the mods as a "phased" process that will evolve your ride as you evolve your skills. This method is a lot easier on your wallet too.