Vortech CAI - Tune required?

[5PointOHNO]

I have the Vortech kit for my 2011 GT, and it utilizes the stock airbox in standard form.

Naturally, I wanted to look at ditching the stock airbox and go with something that offers more airflow, and luckily, Vortech offers just such a piece for their kits.

However, this line concerns me:

Custom Tuning and Fuel Pump Booster Required
Due to the increased volume of airflow that this product will allow, a custom ECU calibration and fuel pump/pump booster upgrade is required in order to maintain an acceptable air/fuel ratio.

Here is a link to the product:
Competition Air Inlet Upgrade for 2011 Mustang GT | Vortech Superchargers

I am using the canned vortech tune; why would adding a CAI require a tune - it's before the MAF afterall.

 

[SteveP]

yes you will need a tune.

 

[5PointOHNO]

Cool...... why?

Hoping to get educated here.

 

[wazslow]

Cool...... why?

Hoping to get educated here.

More air coming in means you will need more fuel.

 

[SteveP]

Quick version:


The meter will be reading a lot more air as it flows into the motor, you need to adjust the fuel trim so its a equal amount of fuel/ air mixture or you will become lean which is very bad

 

[5PointOHNO]

Gotcha.

Figured that the fuel would be added automatically so long as it passes through the MAF (like the A9L days). I also thought that the air/fuel that vortech aimed for would be more or less be the same since the computer was trained to add X amount of fuel for X amount of air. I didn't think that these ratio's would be static.

Shows what I know! Thanks.

FYI - Vortech supplied tune is 10.2:1 from 3800 to 6800 RPMS. And it's tuned for 91 octane

 

[Modshack]

I am using the canned vortech tune; why would adding a CAI require a tune - it's before the MAF afterall.

Quite a few MAF tubes between the Airbox and the Throttle body have a larger diameter (Steeda for one) or use sleeves that open up the ID. A larger tube results in slower airflow (even though there's more of it). This is basic physics. Slower flow = less signal across the MAF causing everything to run lean unless compensated for by tuning or Fuel pressure. Essentially More air and less fuel. There is not a great deal of difference in absolute flow between an OEM box and a cone so that is likely not the issue here. Efficiency is improved though. I make larger MAF tubes for VW's and Audi's and have a bunch of experience with this...You can read more about the "Why" here....

http://www.modshack.info/bamm.htm

 

[beefcake]

this is why i love my draw through setup. i have changed from a 9 to 13 to 16 psi pulley, and the factory computer has adapted the fuel 100% perfect!! Offroad FTW!

 

[whippled06]

JLT makes a draw through setup for the Votech/Paxton kits. You should really check that out 5PointOHNO

 

[blackshelby]

Gotcha.

Figured that the fuel would be added automatically so long as it passes through the MAF (like the A9L days). I also thought that the air/fuel that vortech aimed for would be more or less be the same since the computer was trained to add X amount of fuel for X amount of air. I didn't think that these ratio's would be static.

Shows what I know! Thanks.

FYI - Vortech supplied tune is 10.2:1 from 3800 to 6800 RPMS. And it's tuned for 91 octane

You are basically on the right page .

That is true or basically how mass air meters work.(as long as the housing and or the sensor is not changed)

But since its a new tube the stock sensor will mount in(at least that's what I am thinking it is) the transfer curve for the MAF will be different so it will need to be changed in the tune.

Here is some info on MAF's ,how they work and things to be careful about.........

LINK

http://stangsunited.com/showthread.php?3803-Warning-!!-Before-you-change-that-tune-read-this!

Again be real careful how the tune is created with the new MAF.

2011 uses a frequency sensor/meter which is extremely accurate.

If the MAF curve is incorrect in the tune you can have all kinds of driveabilty issues.(including hurting an engine, because the load tables are all wrong)

 

[ubeenbit]

That picture looks like the box is replaced and the mass air has already been moved to blow through. If nothing changed where the mass air is located then you should be fine as long as stay within the mass air range and fuel limits.

 

[5PointOHNO]

That picture looks like the box is replaced and the mass air has already been moved to blow through. If nothing changed where the mass air is located then you should be fine as long as stay within the mass air range and fuel limits.

You're right ubeenbit, the car is converted to blow-through as part of the blower kit. It retains the stock airbox but with a plug instead of the maf tube. The tube is relocated to a 98mm ID housing after the intercooler and before the TB.

So since the new air is metered and the MAF housing size hasn't changed, would I still need a tune? On JLT's site, it says "no tune required for blow-through."

Here is a pic of the vortech blockoff plate:

If it needs it, it needs it; I'm good with that. I just want to be sure beforehand.

 

[kyoshosp2]

mine is blow thru.. i went from a 3.8 to 3.6 pulley and it kept a 11.8 like it should

 

[blackshelby]

You're right ubeenbit, the car is converted to blow-through as part of the blower kit. It retains the stock airbox but with a plug instead of the maf tube. The tube is relocated to a 98mm ID housing after the intercooler and before the TB.

So since the new air is metered and the MAF housing size hasn't changed, would I still need a tune? On JLT's site, it says "no tune required for blow-through."

Here is a pic of the vortech blockoff plate:

If it needs it, it needs it; I'm good with that. I just want to be sure beforehand.

If the MAF sensor and the MAF tube is the same one that was used before this change/upgrade ,then it would not matter if blow through or suck through. The MAF transfer function would be the same for both and you shouldn't need to change the tune.

 

[05yellowgt]

mine is blow thru.. i went from a 3.8 to 3.6 pulley and it kept a 11.8 like it should

Provided the MAF has enough range left and the tune has been created in mind with handing the increased boost then you can change pullies without changing tunes.

 

[beefcake]

Provided the MAF has enough range left and the tune has been created in mind with handing the increased boost then you can change pullies without changing tunes.

Yep, my non carb setup is 135mm=5.31 inches. Gives a TON of range.

Vortech said if they didn't have to make the kits to CARB, all kits would be setup like mine.

I'm kinda choking on the 3 1/2 inlet though. Gotta fab up a 4"

 

[Tucker]

We saw very little A/F change with our blow through CAI.
20-30 RWHP and only $169.
http://jlttruecoldair.com/ZenCart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=357_358&products_id=389

OMG, I just looked at the link, their kit is $290??

Here's ours for $169:

We also have a draw through with a 110mm MAF for $249.

Thanks
Jay

 

[5PointOHNO]

^You seem slightly down on TQ in your Dyno.

With the Vortech and canned tune I made about the same RWHP (510), but 80FT LBS more torque.

I too was getting 6PSI.

PS - I will be grabbing a JLT CAI soon.

 

[Tucker]

Car was built with less compression, ported heads and more. This was a quick 20 minute test, no tuning done.
BTW, this car has been 9.40's Hehehehehe

It's built for the juice...

 

[5PointOHNO]

^

I ordered the JLT kit this morning.