Wideband O2 question

Discussion in '2005+ Mustang GT 4.6L Tech' started by Lcfrshadow, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Member

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    The X3 and X4 can datalog two additional analog Chanel’s with an accessory cable that plugs right in. You could connect one channel to a boost gauge and the other to a wide band and see them on the screen and send them to your laptop with the rest of the data you are monitoring.
     
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  2. msvela448

    msvela448 forum member

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    I have an Innovate Motorsports LM-2 that I'd being willing to sell if anyone is interested PM me. Barely used, includes original packaging / case and all the cables. (Part #3806). I think it was about $450 new. We can chat about price if someone is interested.

    https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm2.php



    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
     
  3. 06 T-RED S/C GT

    06 T-RED S/C GT forum member

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    So if I don't have a laptop, can the data from the wideband be sent to a desktop PC which has the SCT LiveLink software installed on it, from the X4?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  4. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Member

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    I believe it can be saved into the X4 and transferred to the desktop along with the other data that’s been saved but I have not done that.
     
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  5. 06 T-RED S/C GT

    06 T-RED S/C GT forum member

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    Neither have I nor do I have any prior experience with datalogging. I also just recently found out that connecting a wideband O2 is also required for datalogging/remote tuning when it comes to supercharged applications :shrug:
     
  6. 06 T-RED S/C GT

    06 T-RED S/C GT forum member

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    I'm highly considering a Lito remote tune for my "06" GT with Saleen VI blower w/3.6" pulley. My question is this.. Is installing a wideband recommended if my max boost is under 7.5psi-7psi? My exhaust has the stock catted mid-pipe and don't really want to go thru all the hassle of having to purchase a wideband O2 sensor setup, then having to weld in an O2 bung in the exhaust in front of the stock cats, if I can possibly avoid doing so, being as my SCT X4 hand-held device does in fact have the capability to datalog. Meanwhile, If anyone can chime in? I'd really appreciate any feedback/support that can be provided.
     
  7. msvela448

    msvela448 forum member

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    A wideband is a helpful tool for a tuner. Boosted cars can definitely benefit from a tune. Even at only 5-7 psi.

    My understanding is... (I'm not a tuner)... otherwise they have to go by fuel trim values to make adjustments. The wideband confirms the actual a/f ratio, quickly, whereas the fuel trim values are just a percentage of the commanded value and not actually the real a/f in real time.. The factory O2 sensors are slow (not wideband) so the trims take some time to adjust.

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
     
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  8. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Member

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    At this point, the question of weather or not you “have too” install a wide band O2 sensor is up to the Tuner you chose. Simply ask the Tuner if he can write a tune for your setup without a wide band. The Tuner will give you the answer your looking for.
     
  9. DieHarder

    DieHarder Member

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    I would advise against supercharging without a custom tune using a wideband. You’ve spent several thousand on your car to get it this far. The final piece to making it truly perform (Or fall flat on its face) after all of that work and money is Tuning it properly.

    installing a wideband sensor is actually very straight forward. The FireWire cable is simple as well. It’s going to require a hundred or so to weld in a bung by your muffler shop. Then run the sensor to hook it up. I used an AEM and put the bung in after the CAT on the driver side due to my stock setup which I wanted to keep. I did this with Lito’s blessing who said he could (and did) tune my car just fine. You’ll want to monitor boost and AFR with the FireWire along with the standard logging information from your handheld tuner. With that your tuner can make informed adjustments. Without it you’re just rolling dice IMHO.

    if you want I can send you pics of the setup including where the wideband is installed in the exhaust and the wiring setup for logging. I used an SCT X4. Let me know if you need it.
     
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  10. 06 T-RED S/C GT

    06 T-RED S/C GT forum member

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    I don't know if your aware of this or not? but I've been running a JDM custom mail order F/I tune that was written for my car during the last 2+years. Before that, I was running a Brenspeed custom mail order F/I tune also written for my car. Needless to say, I had both custom mail order tunes verified by a local tuning shop on the dyno. The tuning shop owner confirmed the mail order tunes were safe and calibrated properly. Max Engine/Torque/Ft.lbs: 436.. Max RWHP: 432.. Max Air/Fuel: 14.7.. Max Boost/Vac: 9.9psi.. Average Engine/Torque/Ft.lbs: 312.. Average RWHP: 235.. Average Air/Fuel: 12.1.. Average Boost/Vac: 3.7psi.. I've also attached the dyno graph print out if your interested in looking it over to determine if everything was dialed in accurately? In the meantime, I would most definitely be interested in looking over pics of your setup including where the wideband is installed in the exhaust and the wiring setup for logging.. So yes, it would in fact be very useful and helpful, to say the very least. :)

    039.JPG
     
  11. DieHarder

    DieHarder Member

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    That's great and it sounds like your setup is well known. Each motor however is different to a greater or lesser degree depending on mods and at least in my case I'd rather spend about the same amount of money to get a custom tune vice a canned one (in fact I'm sure I paid less than most ~$600 including gauges/sensors) that accounts for the dynamics of the engine I just spent several thousand on. And, I can always use in the future to monitor what's going on or even tune it myself if I'm so inclined. That said, here's the setup for logging using an X4; AEM 30-4900 (Dual Boost/Wideband AFR) including the connections for logging.

    Attached is my setup for a 2006 GT w/a DOB intake and GT500 supercharger components. Sorry for the length and not meaning to make this a diatribe... I have one correction in the document - the tach signal connection was made to one of the injectors (Light Red/White stripe). Not blue/red stripe (sorry for that, getting old). Best Regards all.
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. DieHarder

    DieHarder Member

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    Additionally, here's the firewire cabling setup.
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. Rick Simons

    Rick Simons Member

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    The firewire cable allows the X4 or whatever tuning device you're using to log the analog AFR signal from the wideband controller. I've just gotten started on my setup. I'm using an Innovate MTXL wideband controller which will be connected to my SCT X4 tuner. The tuner is connected to the laptop via USB, and I'm using SCT LiveLink for the data logging. Now to figure out how to remote trigger logging so I don't have to fiddle with the pc while doing a 3rd gear full throttle pull at XXX mph.
     
  14. DieHarder

    DieHarder Member

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    Correct. You might try one of those mice that moves with your hand. Seriously, I just usually start the log and drive or set it up beforehand to start logging just before the pull with a tap on the mouse pad. My tuner usually just fast forward's to the section with the WOT pulls. Regarding the Firewire cable - get a decent one. I know $20 - $30 is expensive for a cable but I've heard of setups where people used cheap cables and then wondered why the signals were intermittent or didn't show up at all. Mine has always worked. Also highly recommend soldering connections vice crimping. Just my two cents.
     
  15. 06 T-RED S/C GT

    06 T-RED S/C GT forum member

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    I finally got the chance to look over the pics and wiring setup for logging. Needless to say, despite having a decent custom mail order F/I tune from JDM engineering, I do agree that custom remote/datalog tuning is the best way to go, when knowing that every engine responds to tuning differently, even if they're identical engines. However, if a laptop is also required? then unfortunately I do not own a laptop, but only own a desktop PC which does have the SCT LiveLink software installed and I also have the SCT X4 programmer, which somebody mentioned in this thread that a wideband O2 sensor can be connected directly to the SCT X4 with a FireWire cable without the need for requiring a laptop? Anyhow, all I would be using the wideband for is to record datalog files for Lito, just so he could begin the remote tuning process. Therefore, I would leave all the boost and AFR monitoring/adjustments up to his discretion, to begin with. In the meantime, let me know your thoughts/opinions as to whether a laptop must be required in order to connect to a wideband O2 or if the wideband can be connected directly to the X4 and record via FireWire cable? Meanwhile, thanks once again :)
     
  16. DieHarder

    DieHarder Member

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    If you're going to record the logs you need some kind of logging device/software (whether that be the SCT itself, Livelink or something else) and a recording medium/memory. If the SCT will capture the logs your tuner needs then fine. Otherwise, the logging software includes a record function and at least in my experience a laptop has been invaluable allowing me to record the data required. Additionally, since my tuner creates a configuration file (which determines which parameters are being recorded) that needs to be loaded up into the logging software prior to each run in order to populate the logs.

    I haven't looked on SCT's site to determine if the X4 will capture the type and amount of information needed to make tuning adjustments. If I remember correctly you can create logs using the device only but I cannot say if it contains enough of the kind of data necessary and fidelity (allowing the tuner to look at specific slices in time) required or tuning base information to make informed adjustments to the tune.

    I was advised to use a laptop and have found it to be the best/easiest setup to produce the desired results. However, if your tuner says the logs captured by the SCT device itself contain enough information to tune the car then fine. Although if you plan to record Boost & AFR (which are analog) not sure how to record them using the SCT itself since they output from the gauge through the SCT to the laptop and are captured in the logging software during runs.

    If you need a cheap laptop that'll run Win 7 or better check out Craig's list, ebay or really any site. You can probably pick one up for a couple of hundred these days. Maybe less. It's really invaluable and allows you to capture, display and edit parameters which the handheld cannot do by itself. A worthwhile read that better explains setting up an AFR for tuning is posted on DOB's website written by Jim Adams - https://www.departmentofboost.com//..._With_Lito_Guide_By_Jim_Adams_RIP_brother.pdf
     
  17. 06 T-RED S/C GT

    06 T-RED S/C GT forum member

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    I'll have to contact tech support over at SCT to find out if the X4 can capture the type and amount of info from a wideband required for making tuning adjustments. Until then, all I have at this point is the X4 tuner and desktop PC which has the SCT LiveLink software installed :shrug:
     
  18. Rick Simons

    Rick Simons Member

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    Yes you can data log with the X4, but you won't be able to use a specific configuration file for the log like you can if you use a laptop with LiveLink or something similar.
     
  19. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    You have to configure the x4 with Livelink first. Livelink then gives you the option to save the datalog configuration file. This tells the X4 what parameters to record. Then you take the x4 only and drive/log. After you .got the datalog, you use livelink to get the log from the x4.

    Its been 3 years since I did this for my tuner guy. But he did email me a datalog config file for specific logs he needed.

    Since there is zero need on a coyote for a wideband, I have no experience logging from an external input. Sorry.
     
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  20. DieHarder

    DieHarder Member

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    Thanks Juice, good to hear the X4 can load a custom config file and still log all parameters needed. I'll try it next time I run a log.
     
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