Wrestling with this decision and need imput

Smokievol

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Okay, I am wrestling with this decision, which I am known to do. This is a follow up to my other post.

I have Steeda Sport Springs with Koni Yellows and Steeda Upper Strut Mounts, along with J&M Extreme LCA and a Adj UMI PHB.
Plus the added weight of the Magnacharger TVS 1900 SC.

My ball joints need replacing and I failed inspection.

I have a set of GT500 Cobra front LCA waiting for install.

I keep going back to the new Steeda front LCA. These have all new urethane bushings and the new X-10 ball joints.
Car just retired from daily driving and will be mostly a street car and maybe some fun track driving if I get the time and balls to get out there.

So is it GT500 LCA or Steeda LCA?:asshat::asshat::asshat:
 

SoundGuyDave

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IF you do an extended ball joint, THEN you have to do the bump-steer kit, and have a proper front alignment done to compensate. Period. The ONLY reason to do the extended ball joint is to relocate the front roll center to gain back the corner handling balance and responsiveness. IF you are 99% street-driven, and not tracking the car, you won't (shouldn't) be pushing the car past 50-60% of it's net grip budget, even when driving in a "spirited" fashion, thus you won't be approaching the point where the handling balance becomes an issue. Therefore, you should NOT worry about the extended ball joints,bushing compliance, the extra expense, extra maintenance (race parts do NOT last like OE!), or any of the rest of it. If you want to do it for hard-parking or bragging rights, by all means do so, but I would wager quite a bit that you will NEVER "feel" the difference on the street.

FWIW, I tracked my Mustang aggressively for years without relocating the roll center, even though I am significantly lower than stock, due to class restrictions. After I did relocate (X5 ball joints), yes there is a difference, but it really only comes into play once you're pushing hard, something that you won't experience on the street.

Just my .02, adjusted downwards for inflation and fiscal cliffs.
 

Smokievol

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Was a option before, not now

I was seriously looking at the Whiteline BJ and Bushings, and my performance shop was ready to do that job....BJ no issue but removing the other bushings is a tough and expensive job.

So I am at GT500 arms with all new bushings or Steeda with all new bushings and having to add bumpsteer kit.

Thanks for your input


If it was me I would do the GT500 arms and put the Whiteline front LCA bushings and ball joint in or if the arms are new just go with the ball joints and tie rod ends.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KCA433

http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KCA306
 

Smokievol

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Thanks SoundGuyDave

Have been reading the many post on this and happy you chimed in.

My spirited driving is usually straight line and short bursts, sometimes to limit of odometer. Then it’s back to cruising.

Would one add the bump steer kit to the GT500 if needed?



IF you do an extended ball joint, THEN you have to do the bump-steer kit, and have a proper front alignment done to compensate. Period. The ONLY reason to do the extended ball joint is to relocate the front roll center to gain back the corner handling balance and responsiveness. IF you are 99% street-driven, and not tracking the car, you won't (shouldn't) be pushing the car past 50-60% of it's net grip budget, even when driving in a "spirited" fashion, thus you won't be approaching the point where the handling balance becomes an issue. Therefore, you should NOT worry about the extended ball joints,bushing compliance, the extra expense, extra maintenance (race parts do NOT last like OE!), or any of the rest of it. If you want to do it for hard-parking or bragging rights, by all means do so, but I would wager quite a bit that you will NEVER "feel" the difference on the street.

FWIW, I tracked my Mustang aggressively for years without relocating the roll center, even though I am significantly lower than stock, due to class restrictions. After I did relocate (X5 ball joints), yes there is a difference, but it really only comes into play once you're pushing hard, something that you won't experience on the street.

Just my .02, adjusted downwards for inflation and fiscal cliffs.
 

Roadracer350

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about 1 in Frt to 1.5 inch drop in rear....

With 1 inch I'm not sure if you really need a tall ball joint? Maybe Dave or Terry from Vorshlag could chime in but I really don't think you need it. With the TBJ and BSK you will be adjusting your roll center back and your not lowered that much. I may be way off here. I was assuming you were like 2" dropped.
 

Smokievol

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I do need to change the rear LCA, they are pointed to ups towards the axle.

Would adjusting the front make much difference when I adjust the rear?
 

SoundGuyDave

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No prob, free advice is usually worth what you pay for it!!

If most of your "fun" on the street is focused on straight-line, then I wouldn't sweat the ball joint length at all, particularly if your drop is as mild as it is.

Yes, you can certainly add a bump-steer kit with the GT500 arms if you wish! Remember that bump-steer is a change in toe angle during vertical suspension motion. This toe delta is created by differing arcs between the control arm and the tie-rod, usually measured over a +/- 2" range of motion. When you add the taller ball joint, you are effectively lowering the outboard end of the control arm, changing the relationship between it and the stock-height tie rod pretty dramatically. This is what creates bump-steer issues with the X5-type ball joints. Ford's OE design actually has very little bump-steer, going out all the way to the extremes of being on the bump-stops, and at full droop. A bump-steer kit neither fixes nor creates a bump steer issue, it merely allows us to tune out any that may exist. Whiteline's kit is the only ball/socket setup I've seen, and it's tuning is preset to work with their extended balljoint, effectively bringing the entire front geometry right back to stock. All the others, Steeda, Maximum Motorsports, etc., all use a tapered stud in the knuckle, with a threaded bottom portion that allow you to move a ROD END up and down via a series of spacers. This is where the tunability comes from. I put ROD END in caps, because rod ends (Heim joint) and streets are not generally a friendly mix. The inner race is exposed to the elements, road salt eats the teflon lubricating band, they wear faster by a factor of at least 10, and they require fairly regular maintenance. If you were dissapointed by your stock ball joints "only" lasting 70,xxx miles, then you will be hating life with a rod end that will probably show play after 10,000, if not sooner.

Also, treat the front and rear suspensions independently. Unless you want to get into cutting up the tub of the car, there's no way to raise the front of the rear LCA, the only option is to lower the rear. Also, be careful with your bushing material choice when looking at any suspension component. Harder, stiffer bushings (rubber softest, poly in the middle, Delrin or Heims the hardest) will reduce bushing compliance (flex, or distortion) which makes them more precise, yes, but there is a downside as well. The lower the compliance, the more transmitted vibration. On a race car, with all Delrin or Heims, when you roll over a penny in the paddock, you not only know you rolled over it, but you can tell what year it is, and whether it came from the Denver or San Francico mint. Awesome, right? Until that same car hits a pothole, and all but breaks your wrist because none of the shock was absorbed by the bushing. Also, with a race setup, all those little noises (which ARE vibrations!) will be transmitted DIRECTLY into the car. Rear gear, trans, exhaust drone, tire road noise; all of it will become immediately apparent, and obtrusive. If you're looking for "crisp" handling, that's one thing, but if you're primarily a cruiser (which I would bet on, based on your mileage), then all those noises and vibrations can get extremely annoying.
 

Smokievol

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I'm starting to get all of this...of course the more you know,,,the less you know.

Looks like GT500 LCA will be installed Thursday.

By the way I'm looking for a 1859 Indian Head penny, have you found any?

I'll pay for Fed X if you do find one.
 

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