Anybody good at diagnosing data logs??

[Seer]

So what do I need to tell them then?

I was under the impression if the dealer can prove our cars have had an aftermarket tune in them besides the pro cal tune then they pretty much have us by the balls when it comes to a repair that is power train/ PCM related.

Is this not true?

They do.

 

[SCreemer]

As long as you returned to stock whether it was tuned in the past should not cause an issue.

I was informed by a reputable tuner that these modern PCMs have a permanent memory log that cannot be cleared, even by Ford. That's the whole point of this stategy - no way to hide the history of changes to the programming.

To the OP: I feel your pain, and the dealership WILL repair your car, just not under warranty. Why not take it to a tuner and have them go over it? This will probably be cheaper, and avoid further "history" with Ford... just a suggestion

Paul

 

[Hardcore]

With engine running, spray brake cleaner or starting fluid around the engine. If the idle changes, you've found your vacuum leak.

DERRRRRR ALERT!!!!!

DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU WANT TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL AND SPEND SOME TIME IN THE BURN UNIT!!!!

Jesus Christ the advice people give on the Internet....





All you have to do use use a spray bottle of WATER and spray it around the intake. Since I is a vacuum leak, it will suck the water in and stumble the engine, and you won't go up in a fireball.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

DERRRRRR ALERT!!!!!

DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU WANT TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL AND SPEND SOME TIME IN THE BURN UNIT!!!!

Jesus Christ the advice people give on the Internet....





All you have to do use use a spray bottle of WATER and spray it around the intake. Since I is a vacuum leak, it will suck the water in and stumble the engine, and you won't go up in a fireball.

LOL some people have an over active imagination.

I'm wondering y you think someone will be hurt? Is it because your shooting flammable liquid in the intake? Isn't that's how a carbureted system work? Anyways. This is want industry professionals do. we do this all The time. We use either carb cleaner or brake cleaner but we do more then just listen to the motor. We monitor fuel trims short and long. Paying lots of attention to short term fuel trims. Once you come across the the leak you will see short term fuel trims shoot negative since its now burning the other source of fuel so it doesn't need to add as much fuel.


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[ochoblanco]

So what do I need to tell them then?

I was under the impression if the dealer can prove our cars have had an aftermarket tune in them besides the pro cal tune then they pretty much have us by the balls when it comes to a repair that is power train/ PCM related.

Is this not true?

They certainly do. But you knew the risk when you boosted and tuned your car I'm sure. I would simply go back and ask to pay for a full diagnosis. Not a fix but just the diagnosis. Do this with the understanding that they might not find your problem but at least you can scratch this off the list of options.

 

[Hardcore]

I have personally seen with my own two eyes idiots fireball themselves with starting fluid looking for a vacuum leak.

And as far as "professionals" doing that, I can't even imagine where you get that idea. You think any service manual in the world tells you to spray flammable liquid on a running engine?

Anyone I know with any sense uses water.

And comparing a carb to spraying brake cleaner or starting fluid around an intake is asinine.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Well believe it or not we at the dealer all use brake cleaner or carb cleaner. Never starting fluid as that is for diesels and on diesel this is very possible that and starting fluid is very volatile I recommend for a diesel silicone spray as its less volatile and gets the job done when it comes to getting it started. . And service Manuel's don't say this but on the flip side engineers will tell you to do this if you request help to find a vacuum leak. I'm wondering in my head why the fire ball ? I'm assuming they did this maybe in the throttle body to get it runing on a damaged motor? I'm pretty sure it wasn't a healthy motor.


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[Hardcore]

Why would you be doing this process to a "healthy motor" lol?! If say you have a bad plug wire, short somewhere, exhaust leak. All the external things that make an engine idle rough can ignite any flammable if the ratio becomes right.

Blows my mind what people think and do, I swear to sweet 6lb 5oz baby Jesus...

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Why would you be doing this process to a "healthy motor" lol?! If say you have a bad plug wire, short somewhere, exhaust leak. All the external things that make an engine idle rough can ignite any flammable if the ratio becomes right.

Blows my mind what people think and do, I swear to sweet 6lb 5oz baby Jesus...

Ok I see there is some miscommunication somewhere. Only time this should be done is when a vacuum leak is suspect. Usually lean codes and fuel trims at extreme positive. But motor runs fine at idle lets say. Best way to find a leak is with brake cleaner. Now usually big leaks you can find them easy by ear and experience since usually its common parts that fail. Now you statement is why do it in a healthy motor? Better question is why on a damaged motor? ( what I mean about damaged motor is low compression , base engine concerns) That's begging for trouble. Again this is to find vacuum leaks on a Healthy motor. Any tech ( decent one ) will know if the motor is missfire due to one cylinder (spark or fuel delivery issue ) just by feeling it. Our dealer scan tool can check lots of thing and compression check, can all be done in less then 5 min. I hope this clears some things up.


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[lee12609]

water on vacuum leaks nothing flammable. infact the gm LS truck motors are notorious fore vacuum leaks at the manifold. you can spray 2 cans of carb cleaner around it and never a change, drop some water around it and they almost stall....

nobody with common sense uses flammable sprays to find a vacuum leak anymore. at most propane is to be used.

 

[Hardcore]

Ok I see there is some miscommunication somewhere. Only time this should be done is when a vacuum leak is suspect. Usually lean codes and fuel trims at extreme positive. But motor runs fine at idle lets say. Best way to find a leak is with brake cleaner. Now usually big leaks you can find them easy by ear and experience since usually its common parts that fail. Now you statement is why do it in a healthy motor? Better question is why on a damaged motor? ( what I mean about damaged motor is low compression , base engine concerns) That's begging for trouble. Again this is to find vacuum leaks on a Healthy motor. Any tech ( decent one ) will know if the motor is missfire due to one cylinder (spark or fuel delivery issue ) just by feeling it. Our dealer scan tool can check lots of thing and compression check, can all be done in less then 5 min. I hope this clears some things up.


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You are not competent to be making diagnostic recommendations period. Clear as day, no miscommunication.

Sorry OP for the derailment, I was just caught off by the seriously unsafe recommendation of that guy.

 

[Hardcore]

water on vacuum leaks nothing flammable. infact the gm LS truck motors are notorious fore vacuum leaks at the manifold. you can spray 2 cans of carb cleaner around it and never a change, drop some water around it and they almost stall....

nobody with common sense uses flammable sprays to find a vacuum leak anymore. at most propane is to be used.

Thank you.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

I assume neither one of you two are actual techs? and to say that statement with out actually knowing my skills or me personally is ignorant. These tricks that I do and have done have actually come from ford engineers when I just started and this methods are used by all my coworkers in the current dealership and past dealership I have worked at. I guess we are all just a big group of dummies. I think this is something we just have to agree to disagree.


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[Alfiedagr8]

Anything in black and white I can provide to the dealer that backs that up?

They are saying since it "was" tuned they won't continue warranty work on it.

As of right now it's just my word against their PCM readout showing the car "had" a "performance tune"

Nick

Was your car in stock tune when u took it in?


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[Hardcore]

I assume neither one of you two are actual techs? and to say that statement with out actually knowing my skills or me personally is ignorant. These tricks that I do and have done have actually come from ford engineers when I just started and this methods are used by all my coworkers in the current dealership and past dealership I have worked at. I guess we are all just a big group of dummies. I think this is something we just have to agree to disagree.


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I was a tech 15 years ago when I got out of high school. Now I have a real job.

I'm a engineering technical analyst for one of the largest companies in the world with qualifications that a Ford fresh out of school, "engineer" would bow to.

Not trying to have a contest with you, I'm just stating the fact that what you propose is foolish and very dangerous.

Defend yourself till they turn off the Internet for all I care, I won't derail this thing any more.

 

[Hardcore]

Was your car in stock tune when u took it in?


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If you ready the thread you would know the answer to that was yes. Do you read the manuals and instructions at work better?

 

[Alfiedagr8]

So answer is no your not a tech.

That's y you do what u do and I do what I do.

And too much to read on a phone.




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[Alfiedagr8]

I'm just trying to understand mid way through the tread.








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[slvr08gt]

I'm just trying to understand mid way through the tread.








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Yes. The car was stock.

Can we please keep this thread on track guys?

The issue is obviously something to so with my short term bank 1 o2 sensor. I just don't know why it won't register a reading.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

I was informed by a reputable tuner that these modern PCMs have a permanent memory log that cannot be cleared, even by Ford. That's the whole point of this stategy - no way to hide the history of changes to the programming.

To the OP: I feel your pain, and the dealership WILL repair your car, just not under warranty. Why not take it to a tuner and have them go over it? This will probably be cheaper, and avoid further "history" with Ford... just a suggestion

Paul

Ford has to prove that the root cause of the failure is a result of the aftermarket modification.

Now who has the car?




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