Anti-Squat Brackets (aka LCA Relocation Brackets)

[don_w]

I am looking at getting a set of anti-squat brackets (aka LCA relocation brackets). The two I am considering right now are CHE (http://www.cheperformance.com/CartGenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=209&cid=15) or BMR (http://bmrfabrication.com/2005MustangDRIVELINE.htm)... however I am open to other suggestions.

One thing I do like about the BMR bracket is that it has two position settings, whereas the CHE only has one. That will give me some additional adjustability for dialing in the suspension.

I'm looking for feedback from those of you who have installed these, with respect to quality, fit and finish, installation, durability, performance, etc. Any and all comments will be appreciated. TIA...



.

 

[LAK3RS]

I just installed my CHE Anti Squat brackets this weekend and it was a piece of cake along with my driveshaft, ds loop, panhard bar and brace. The ds loop was the biggest pain in the ass though...I'ma make a thread on it here in a sec...

Any ways, the driver side bracket went on fine with no alterations what so ever. CHE has a new design that clears the rear swaybar as well. So there's no worries on that. The passenger side bracket had to be adjusted a bit on the top hole. My friend just pulled out the dremel and fixed in about 30 seconds, then it slipped right on and the bolts went right on through, though a hammer was needed to get both brackets in place along with the use of a wooden block. Over all the install was surprisingly easy. Though CHE only has one mounting location for the LCA's it's an amazing well put product. The weld points were very precise and it really feels like it helps with the "squat" in the rear. You should think about it...

- Justin

 

[thump_rrr]

If I recall correctly you are still using your stock springs.

With the stock springs there is no need to install LCA Relocation Brackets since the angle of your LCA is correct.

I have the BMR's on my car with the Steeda springs and the lower bolt hole is way too low for my 1" drop.

I will be trying the upper hole soon.

If you only want to make minor adjustments maybe a set of the Steeda's might be right for you since I hear that the holes are much closer to stock than the BMR's.

I may be getting rid of my BMR's for a set of the Steeda ones later in the season.

 

[don_w]

If I recall correctly you are still using your stock springs.

With the stock springs there is no need to install LCA Relocation Brackets since the angle of your LCA is correct.

Yes, stock springs. My LCAs are almost parallel to the ground... maybe it's the taller tires????

Anyway, I'm trying to eliminate as much squat as I can. With the addition of the roll bar, the car seems to be launching more level (i.e., less body/chassis roll to the right rear). For comparison, take a look at this video from a few months ago: Video - Barona, 1-13-07. See how the car rolls to the right and bounces all over the place? And here is one from last Friday night... much less roll and bounce: Video - Qualcomm, 6-22-07.

So, it's definitely not rolling as much, but I'm still getting excessive squat (you can also see it in this video from last week at Irwindale). Too much squat on the launch is robbing power from the wheels... it is wasted energy moving the body around (not to mention, the fenderwell hits the side of the slick). I want the car to transfer weight to the rear (i.e. lift the front), but once weight transfer occurs, ideally the rear should plant the tires without too much squat (picture a Pro Stock car). One way to do this is to change the instant center (IC) of the suspension geometry. The instant center is the point at which a line extended from the UCA and LCAs would intersect. Moving the IC rearward will generally reduce squat. Adding the LCA relo brackets will drop the back of the LCAs and change the intersect point, moving it back towards the rear.

That's the theory anyway... and for the price of the brackets, it's worth a try.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I am looking at getting a set of anti-squat brackets (aka LCA relocation brackets). The two I am considering right now are CHE (http://www.cheperformance.com/CartGenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=209&cid=15) or BMR (http://bmrfabrication.com/2005MustangDRIVELINE.htm)... however I am open to other suggestions.

One thing I do like about the BMR bracket is that it has two position settings, whereas the CHE only has one. That will give me some additional adjustability for dialing in the suspension.

I'm looking for feedback from those of you who have installed these, with respect to quality, fit and finish, installation, durability, performance, etc. Any and all comments will be appreciated. TIA...



.

I've got the BMR pieces installed, and had no issues whatsoever with the installation. There have been reports of bad spacers being supplied (too long), but even that's an easy fix. The brackets installed simply and easily, with just a tap or two with the HANDLE of a hammer to get them in place, and the control arms slip in like butter with all the bolts loosened. If the upper mount bolt is torqued, it compresses the bracket JUST enough to make it a PITA to get the control arms to line up.

A couple of observations with respect to instant center and anti-squat. The upper hole in the BMR bracket is nigh-on perfect with a drop of around 1.75" in the rear, which is what I'm running. The lower mount point is EXTREMELY agressive, and may actually create too much anti-squat. In that configuration, the ride is abusively hard, and if you don't get enough weight transfer to the rear, the back will actually lift. Correct me if I'm wrong, but ideally, on launch, you don't want the rear end to do ANYTHING. As the front lifts, the weight transfers to the rear, and with exactly 100% anti-squat, ALL of that transferred weight is on the tires. All the rear does is rotate a degree or two, in sync with the front end rise. With less than 100% anti-squat, the rear end sags, and with more than 100%, the rear will rise.

With my car being set up for handling rather than pure traction, I'm running a 1.25" drop in front, a 1.75" drop in the rear, with heavy bars front and rear, and with the LCAs mounted in the top bracket hole, I'm just a shade away from paralell to the ground. With a 1" drop like you have (I think), you'll have a slight "up" angle on the LCAs, which will indeed shift the instant center towards the rear of the car, and increase your anti-squat.

I'm also considering moving to the Steeda brackets, but more for the finer adjustability in the "handling" range than because there is an issue with the BMR brackets. For the drag guys, I think it's a hard piece to beat. Right now, the BMR brackets are the lowest part of the chassis on the car, and for my purposes, the extra bracket length is wasted metal.

 

[G.T]

i've ordered the BMR LCAs and relocation brackets for my non-lowered car too..

i'm basically gonna be trying out everything to help improve my traction and reduce squat on take off.
as it stands, with all the weight added to the front (Whipple and Shelby hood) the nose went down and the tail went up!.
my car doesn't hook on 1st, 2nd and sometimes even fishtails on 3rd.

i think stickier tires are next on the list.. but my Michelini Pilot Sports (285/40ZR18 out back) are still fresh

 

[don_w]

Dave,

That's my understanding too. For a street/strip drag setup, I think the minimum I'd want would be 100% anti-squat. And depending on how the car reacts, I might need more than 100%. The hard part is finding that correct point, and as such, the more adjustability I have, the more I can tinker until I like the way it launches. At the moment, I'm leaning towards the Steeda brackets, primarily because of the extra adjustment hole.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Dave,

That's my understanding too. For a street/strip drag setup, I think the minimum I'd want would be 100% anti-squat. And depending on how the car reacts, I might need more than 100%. The hard part is finding that correct point, and as such, the more adjustability I have, the more I can tinker until I like the way it launches. At the moment, I'm leaning towards the Steeda brackets, primarily because of the extra adjustment hole.

I don't think you'll go far wrong with the Steeda piece, but I will say that the BMR is a rock-solid bracket. The only thing that worries me about the Steeda piece is that it's a weld-in only unit, and thus far, I'm only a handful of hours away from going 100% back to stock. Once the MIG comes out, though... That may not be an issue for you, though.

If you really want to do the math, you could probably plot your IC point, and actually figure out EXACTLY where you need to be for your LCA mount point, and then see whose bracket will give you the right angle.

 

[don_w]

I don't think you'll go far wrong with the Steeda piece, but I will say that the BMR is a rock-solid bracket. The only thing that worries me about the Steeda piece is that it's a weld-in only unit, and thus far, I'm only a handful of hours away from going 100% back to stock. Once the MIG comes out, though... That may not be an issue for you, though.

If you really want to do the math, you could probably plot your IC point, and actually figure out EXACTLY where you need to be for your LCA mount point, and then see whose bracket will give you the right angle.

Since I already have seen 60-foot times in the low 1.50s, I am definitely going to have it welded on. But I have to admit, I was planning on bolting it on first myself, and then taking the car somewhere for the welding. I'm not a welder.

And I agree, with some effort, I might be able to determine the "static" IC. But it's my understanding that there are too many dynamic variables during the launch to really figure out a specific answer. Trying to calculate the "correct" instant center would be virtually impossible, because as the chassis lifts in the front, the location of the center of gravity changes; and, more significantly, as the rear suspension moves up or down, the instant center also changes.

Besides, it's waaaay more fun to track test stuff until it works right... hahaha

 

[169stang]

Don, here's a vid of an 05 we've set up (me driving in the finals). Whipple 455rwhp, Steeda sport springs (approx 1" drop), BMR relocation brackets on the bottom hole. 1.7 60' leaving at 3K rpm (stick car). Very little squat at all. I'm interested in trying the upper setting to see the difference.

http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k...Challenge 9/?action=view&current=M2U00193.flv
Here's another with a better view:
http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k...allenge 9/?action=view&current=M2U00168-1.flv

 

[DynoJoe]

Since I already have seen 60-foot times in the low 1.50s, I am definitely going to have it welded on. But I have to admit, I was planning on bolting it on first myself, and then taking the car somewhere for the welding. I'm not a welder.

And I agree, with some effort, I might be able to determine the "static" IC. But it's my understanding that there are too many dynamic variables during the launch to really figure out a specific answer. Trying to calculate the "correct" instant center would be virtually impossible, because as the chassis lifts in the front, the location of the center of gravity changes; and, more significantly, as the rear suspension moves up or down, the instant center also changes.

Besides, it's waaaay more fun to track test stuff until it works right... hahaha

Dow, Let me know if I can get you a price on either CHE, steeda or BMR.

 

[don_w]

Don, here's a vid of an 05 we've set up (me driving in the finals). Whipple 455rwhp, Steeda sport springs (approx 1" drop), BMR relocation brackets on the bottom hole. 1.7 60' leaving at 3K rpm (stick car). Very little squat at all. I'm interested in trying the upper setting to see the difference.

http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k...Challenge 9/?action=view&current=M2U00193.flv
Here's another with a better view:
http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k...allenge 9/?action=view&current=M2U00168-1.flv

Thanks David!!

 

[G.T]

Hey Don,

is your car lowered at all?
mine isn't.. and i should be getting the BMR LCA, LCA Relocation brackets along with the CHE K-Member brace in a few days..
once i ordered, everyone went on about how i shouldn't install the Relocation brackets on a non-lowered car

 

[don_w]

Hey Don,

is your car lowered at all?
mine isn't.. and i should be getting the BMR LCA, LCA Relocation brackets along with the CHE K-Member brace in a few days..
once i ordered, everyone went on about how i shouldn't install the Relocation brackets on a non-lowered car

No, not lowered. And as far as I'm concerned, being able to adjust the LCA angle and tinker with the instant center location to try to eliminate squat on the launch, is plenty of reason to install relo brackets on a non-lowered car. If someone disagrees, that is their prerogative.

BTW... I decided to go with the Steeda brackets because of the extra adjustment hole compared to the BMR. DynoJoe has them in stock and is sending me a set.

 

[G.T]

the extra adjustment hole allows for a more agressive setting than the BMR right?
not sure if i need it.. besides it's a bit too late.
my parts already shipped out

 

[don_w]

the extra adjustment hole allows for a more agressive setting than the BMR right?
not sure if i need it.. besides it's a bit too late.
my parts already shipped out

I don't know if it would necessarily be more aggressive... for example the top and bottom hole of the Steeda may be the same settings as the two holes in the BMR. But having three positions will just allow me to fine tune it, and see what works best.

I expect to start on the top hole and make some runs at the track. We'll take some video from directly behind the car, so we can compare how it reacts to what it's doing now. If it still squats on the top hole, then I'll move it down to the middle hole. Over time, I'll test all three locations, and whichever one results in the flattest, quickest launch will be where it stays.

Hell... there is even a possibility that I may need to set it up differently for each of the two local tracks I run at. They have vastly different track conditions.

 

[don_w]

With the stock springs there is no need to install LCA Relocation Brackets since the angle of your LCA is correct.

I just found out something interesting. I went out and measured the height of the LCA at both ends. The rear of mine is 1/4" - 1/2" higher than the front... it actually points down (towards the front). No wonder this thing squats so bad. Now I really can't wait to see how changing the angle effects the launch.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I just found out something interesting. I went out and measured the height of the LCA at both ends. The rear of mine is 1/4" - 1/2" higher than the front... it actually points down (towards the front). No wonder this thing squats so bad. Now I really can't wait to see how changing the angle effects the launch.

Man, are you in for a BIG surprise when you get those bars paralell!! It'll feel like you have slicks on the back when you're pulling out of the driveway! Have fun!

 

[G.T]

so having the LCA's parallel is the optimum setting?
i thought they should point slightly upwards (up front) so the car would plant the rear wheels down harder

 

[rog06gt]

I just found out something interesting. I went out and measured the height of the LCA at both ends. The rear of mine is 1/4" - 1/2" higher than the front... it actually points down (towards the front). No wonder this thing squats so bad. Now I really can't wait to see how changing the angle effects the launch.

Wow, ok, that surprises me, I always tought that stock it would at least be parallel to the ground, over time I expect a spring to sag and may be that is what happened here don't know 1/4 to 1/2" seem a lot...well
I found this link, and I better understand why some guys launch very hard but spin down further down the track (too much anti squat)
http://www.hardcore50.com/technical_articles/LaunchingPart1.htm

I know nothing about drag racing, but for my setup (hot street, occasional auto cross & drag strip) , I wiil try to aim for a 100% or less IC.
The steeda bracket will give you 1 more hole for trial and error testing, good thing you choosed it.
Have fun