S550 Mustang Suspension and Powertrain Discussion

[2013DIBGT]

Tasty wheels

 

[BMR Tech]

So much wheel goodness in here. Yummy.

On another note; the '15 V8/5.0 engine comes with a revised engine block. That is always good news, for the power hungry people out there - like me.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Don't come at ME with all that "data requirements"....I'm just a victim of advertisement.

EDIT-Have you weighed that wheel I linked?

Nope, I admittedly haven't weighed that wheel. BUT... I have weighed many 100s of wheels over the past 3 decades, and many of those were 3-piece wheels. I've purchased many sets made like this. In all that time I've never seen anything that sized (18x10.5") that was a 3-piece wheel weigh in at 17.5 pounds. I cannot count how many times I've de-bunked the bogus weight of some $1000-per-wheel example, and have busted wheel manufacturers that were off on their published weights by 30-40% or more, and made more than a few buy back sets of wheels back from me. I always made sure to tell them up front I was looking for a light wheel and was going to be weighing them and holding them to their claims, too.

Contrary to popular belief, 3-piece wheel construction is one of the least efficient ways to make a light wheel. And its falling out of favor quickly, with the advent of rotary forged wheels. The mounting flange and bolts/hardware for a 3-piece wheel add weight, and a well designed forged 1-piece or spun-cast/rotary forged wheel is typically lighter - and usually less costly (rotary forged is always less costly - except for the case of HRE, where it should be). The only benefit to modular 3-piece wheels anymore is ease of modification after the fact, and a manufacturer can offer a wider variety of offsets and widths made with the same center. Many 3-piece wheel makers acquire their (spun) barrels from an outside supplier, and just make the centers.

This 18x10" Enkei RPF1 above is one of the lightest wheels made in that size. Rotary forged/cast-then-spun barrel. It also has TERRIBLE caliper clearance, which is one of the things that makes it light (Enkei tends to use smaller barrels on their RPF1 wheels), and it doesn't fit an S197 front for crap. That's just one example of an 18x10, but one of the lightest 18x10s I've ever weighed. Is that definitive proof that this 18x10.5" weight data is bogus? Nope. Would I bet money they are heavier than 17.5 pounds? Probably.

Always be skeptical of any internet claims of weight without photographic proof. If in doubt, ask the supplier to put the part on a scale and shoot a picture, then send it to ya. With the ease of camera phones that isn't hard anymore. I weigh virtually everything we make or sell, and often include the weight pictures in the product entry. It baffles me that more folks don't do this. Anyway, just my two cents.

 

[NDSP]

So these cars have started showing up in owners hands. This guy weighed his at 3780 for a Premium GT Performance pack with every option and 3/4 tank of gas.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/my-car-arrived-4171p5.html

 

[Boaisy]

Terry was going to weigh his as soon as he gets it too. Doesn't seem that bad. Mine was low 3600's with me in it.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Terry was going to weigh his as soon as he gets it too. Doesn't seem that bad. Mine was low 3600's with me in it.

Seeing these V8 2015 cars in the high 3700 to low 3800 pound range has scared me off. Gaining 200 pounds is just too much for me to swallow. Sorry guys - not gonna buy one.

But we will weigh one likely early next week, develop parts on customers' cars, and of course share what we learn.

 

[BMR Tech]

There was someone on 6G that weighed a base model, manual trans car with like 1/2 tank and it was in the 3700# range.

That doesn't seem too excessive, considering that there is likely a ton of methods to save some serious weight on the new S550.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

There was someone on 6G that weighed a base model, manual trans car with like 1/2 tank and it was in the 3700# range.

That doesn't seem too excessive, considering that there is likely a ton of methods to save some serious weight on the new S550.

First of all, without seeing the car on the scales, seeing the amount of fuel on the gauge, I don't trust internet weight numbers taken by random internet people. But I am seeing a lot of car magazines weighing these S550s and they are all 200+ pounds heavier than the outgoing models. That stinks.

That's my base model 2013 GT 6-speed 5.0L with no spare tire, low fuel, and its barely 3518 pounds. That's removing all of the "easy weight"... but the S550 has no spare, and there isn't going to be big 50 pound slabs of steel bolted onto the car that will just quickly fall away. Compared to that weight above, some of these 2015s have gained nearly 250 pounds of road hugging weight. MT's test car was 3806 pounds - that's nearly THREE HUNDRED POUNDS heavier.

Nope.

EDIT: And yes, there's gonna be some "easy weight" to lose in the OEM wheels. We went from factory 18x8 with 235mm tires on the '13 to 18x10s with 295mm tires and dropped a some pounds, while gaining a lot of grip. The S550 can lose the same weight there, and in the exhaust, but so did the S197s... mod for mod, the S550 is always going to be hundreds of pounds heavier than the S197 (which had a big honkin steel solid axle).

 

[BMR Tech]

I agree. I like to throw our cars on our scales right when we get them. I take everything on the internet with a grain of salt - BUT, when Ford says the car weighs 3705lbs....and multiple people weigh them, and post pics of similar weights, I lean towards believing it.

I am a big fan of apples to apples. I did see where some of the test cars were weighing in heavy, at 3800~lbs. give or take a few. Personally, I don't pay attention to anything MT writes, nor do I care about a Mustang that has every option box checked on the order form.

As I said, I do not believe it is excessive, considering the IRS and Ford's claim of a 16~% stiffer chassis. I think a large % of that claim comes from trying the front subframe together. Likely 40-50lbs of savings there, by making some strategic changes up front.

As for the exhaust, I did notice where Magnaflow, Gibson, and FRPP are all talking 30~lb savings from the catback alone. Did you happen to weigh different exhaust systems for the S197 Terry?

 

[BMR Tech]

And FWIW, I've had a completely stock, base model '14 GT on my scales, and with 1/2 tank....it was about 80lbs more than your weight above. Just so you know.

 

[Norm Peterson]

IOW, maybe 40 lbs heavier at equal fuel load.


Norm

 

[csamsh]

And FWIW, I've had a completely stock, base model '14 GT on my scales, and with 1/2 tank....it was about 80lbs more than your weight above. Just so you know.

well a half tank weighs ~50lbs, and the other 30 would be ~1% error, so I think that's consistent.

 

[NDSP]

The guy that weight 3780 on the truck scales, 4 cornered it yesterday and got 3815, so 200+ lbs is correct. The S550 are fat pigs unfortunatley.

 

[SlowJim]

Still less than the Camaro and Challenger though... I imagine that was the target they were trying to hit. Maybe for the next gen they'll go crazy with the aluminum f150 style.

 

[Whiskey11]

Still less than the Camaro and Challenger though... I imagine that was the target they were trying to hit. Maybe for the next gen they'll go crazy with the aluminum f150 style.

The target weight they should have been aiming to hit was the Fox Body, not the new Camaro and Challenger...

 

[steveespo]

Maybe the 200 lb weight reduction they were bragging about last year was a comparison between a '14 GT 500 and a '16 GT 350. That should be a close comparison.

 

[Redline727]

DEARBORN, Michigan*— The redesigned*2015 Ford Mustang*will be slightly smaller and several hundred pounds lighter when the car goes on sale next year,*Edmunds*has learned.

That was posted on Edmunds last August. Supposedly came right from Ford. Now I know several could mean a different number depending on who you ask. But it didn't lose any. So I want to know what happened between that comment and the actual launch of the car. I would love to read somewhere why they didn't meet their goal. Just curious. I am sure we could all speculate but interested to hear it from them.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

DEARBORN, Michigan*— The redesigned*2015 Ford Mustang*will be slightly smaller and several hundred pounds lighter when the car goes on sale next year,*Edmunds*has learned.

That was posted on Edmunds last August. Supposedly came right from Ford. Now I know several could mean a different number depending on who you ask. But it didn't lose any. So I want to know what happened between that comment and the actual launch of the car. I would love to read somewhere why they didn't meet their goal. Just curious. I am sure we could all speculate but interested to hear it from them.

Car makers LIE. They all do it, and their much touted "weight goals" are almost NEVER EVER met.

Take the C7 Corvette. GM claims (still to this day!) that it is "100 pounds lighter than the outgoing model". Which is the opposite of true. I've owned one and weighed lots of C6 Corvettes. My 2005 Z51 was 3150 pounds, with low fuel. I've seen the "official" GM claims of 3298 pounds for the C7 repeated by almost every car magazine, but the handful that actually TEST these cars have weighed them at 3450-3550 pounds. Maybe it is some new math?

FORD SIMPLY LIED TO ALL OF US.

For irrefutable proof I will have pictures of a 2015 GT on our digital scales likely sometime this week. Five Star Ford has one inbound and they are going to call me to weigh it.

I've got customers out scooping up 2014 Track Pack Mustangs, and dealers are making crazy deals on "the old car" that will very likely be faster on track in stock form than the 2015. Just sayin.

 

[BMR Tech]

well a half tank weighs ~50lbs, and the other 30 would be ~1% error, so I think that's consistent.

Better not be any error, for the cost of our scales. lol

"Curb weight" from Ford, for the 2014 GT I weighed is 3618lbs.

Curb weight is with a full tank of fuel. So my measurement is pretty close to being on par with Ford's claim.

If Ford's claim of 3705 for the '15 GT is accurate, for the same trim (base manual) - then that is <100lbs.

We don't race premium or optioned out Mustangs. We purchase base models, so that is what we compare here.

I will have a base PP, and a base auto scaled and posted soon.

 

[05yellowgt]

DEARBORN, Michigan*— The redesigned*2015 Ford Mustang*will be slightly smaller and several hundred pounds lighter when the car goes on sale next year,*Edmunds*has learned.

That was posted on Edmunds last August. Supposedly came right from Ford. Now I know several could mean a different number depending on who you ask. But it didn't lose any. So I want to know what happened between that comment and the actual launch of the car. I would love to read somewhere why they didn't meet their goal. Just curious. I am sure we could all speculate but interested to hear it from them.

Common Core Math happened