To build or to buy?

[raredesign]

After talking with shops and hit with steep prices for building the short block to hold 20+ psi, the best deal I’ve found is around $5500.
Based on that, I’ve been considering short blocks, like the Ford M-6009-B53
https://www.americanmuscle.com/ford-performance-53l-modular-stroker-shortblock.html

...or dss, modmax, jpc, brenspeed, mmr (I know, I know), etc.

Regarding MMR, I’ve read a lot of bad reviews, but all hear say. Actually one post referenced a “so and so blew his motor”, only to have “so and so” correct the misunderstanding and stated he loved the mmr block and it was the stock block that blew.

Anyway, not sure I’d i should build or buy.

 

[01yellerCobra]

What is included with that $5500? Is that where you drop off your long block and pick up a long block? With the 5.3L you'll need to re-use your heads. And you'll want to freshen them up. It's the little things that add up.

As for MMR, I have some experience with them. First one the engine ended up in my garage in pieces. The crank was toast and couldn't be re-used. This engine was low compression and built for boost. But it never saw boost.

Second engine was a 5.3. He dropped his car off at MMR and had them do all the work. One day he goes to start it after work and has no oil pressure. MMR did fix that one, but only because they had no one else to point the finger at.

Third was a longblock that went into an 03 Cobra. It had a knock from the heads from day one. Engine had to come out and get sent back. On my buddies dime. MMR claimed a piece of RTV used to seal the valve cover made it down to the pan, through the pick up, through the filter, and clogged a galley in the head. Everyone told him it was bullshit, but he was scared of them not fixing it and just setting it off to the side. Leaving him without an engine. I think they charged him another $700.

There was another one, but I don't remember all the issues. Just that it had to get built again, but the only reason we found out was because of head issues.

All of those cars/engines spent time in my driveway. I personally knew/know the owners. Take it for what you want. My opinion.....fuck MMR.

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[raredesign]

What is included with that $5500? Is that where you drop off your long block and pick up a long block? With the 5.3L you'll need to re-use your heads. And you'll want to freshen them up. It's the little things that add up.

As for MMR, I have some experience with them. First one the engine ended up in my garage in pieces. The crank was toast and couldn't be re-used. This engine was low compression and built for boost. But it never saw boost.

Second engine was a 5.3. He dropped his car off at MMR and had them do all the work. One day he goes to start it after work and has no oil pressure. MMR did fix that one, but only because they had no one else to point the finger at.

Third was a longblock that went into an 03 Cobra. It had a knock from the heads from day one. Engine had to come out and get sent back. On my buddies dime. MMR claimed a piece of RTV used to seal the valve cover made it down to the pan, through the pick up, through the filter, and clogged a galley in the head. Everyone told him it was bullshit, but he was scared of them not fixing it and just setting it off to the side. Leaving him without an engine. I think they charged him another $700.

There was another one, but I don't remember all the issues. Just that it had to get built again, but the only reason we found out was because of head issues.

All of those cars/engines spent time in my driveway. I personally knew/know the owners. Take it for what you want. My opinion.....fuck MMR.

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I greatly appreciate that detailed feedback.

Regarding work, it would be torque plate bore/hone, forged internals, tss opg, arp 2000 studs, timing chain and guides, balance and assembly. Not sure how much to reseat the valves.
I have lovernois stage 3 cams and valve springs he would install, and I will get an ati harmonic balancer.

 

[skaarlaj]

http://www.modularheadshop.com/c-1268148-engine-parts-rod-and-piston-combos.html, chose one of these and have your trusted local machine shops machine, balance, and install these parts into your existing short-block, and maybe have him look at your heads and possibly upgrade a few odds and ends.

http://www.modularheadshop.com/c-1268152-engines-shortblocks.html Or choose one of these and just have a second short-block laying around. and probably drop off your existing heads for a freshen up at the machine shop. I'm seriously contemplating doing the 1st option I listed this winter, and saving a bit over 1000 over just going the short-block route, which might just end up affording me some head work instead of money savings.

 

[stkjock]

An FRPP short block will always bee less costly than a shop building a custom motor, simple matter of economics, mass production and buying power.

The FRPP short blocks are generally good units, Tasca usually has the best price on them as well, can take a good amount of power.

keep in mind the s/b u linked is iron and will add 75-100# to the nose of the car.

 

[NickD87]

I was thinking of going with the Ford racing 5.3 as well, the issue I have with it is the compression ratio is higher then I would like and would limit the power I could make on 94 (no e85 around)
Blower would be a DOB with 13gt500 TVs.

Am I correct in my thinking?

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[stkjock]

what's the CR? I don't see it on the details on AM or FRPP sites.


FWIW - higher CR will make more power at lower boost, total compression is total compression, how you get there IMO is not as important. IOW, higher CR and lower boost or lower CR and higher boost... gets one to the same place.

plus a higher CR will make more power when out of boost.

 

[raredesign]

what's the CR? I don't see it on the details on AM or FRPP sites.


FWIW - higher CR will make more power at lower boost, total compression is total compression, how you get there IMO is not as important. IOW, higher CR and lower boost or lower CR and higher boost... gets one to the same place.

plus a higher CR will make more power when out of boost.

Below are the specs from LMR.
With that in mind, my original builder (later backed out) had told me go 9:1 and build for 23psi, and my tuner told me 30psi, but just to be safe and run lower.

The goal is 850rwhp, but I don’t want to short change myself either if I get a bigger turbo later.

I was told if I have too high of CR, I’ll run out of timing, but lower CR can allow for more boost meaning more fuel.

What are your thoughts? It would be nice to get the frpp block, but not sure about the CR.

Compression Ratios
- 44cc 2V Head - 11.56:1
- 51cc 3V Head - 10.5:1
- 53cc 3V Head - 10.2:1
- 53cc 4V Head - 10.2:1

Engine Specifications
- 5.3L/323 cubic inches
- 3.750 Stroke
- 3.701 Bore
- Neutral Balance

Engine Part Specifications
- Ford Racing M-6010-BOSS50 cast iron performance block.
- Eagle 3.750" stroke forged steel crankshaft with 8 bolt flywheel
- Eagle 5.850" forged steel H beam rods with ARP 2000 bolts
- Mahle forged aluminum pistons
- High pressure oil pump

 

[stkjock]

10.2 is high for that much boost. A lot is going to depend on fuel.

 

[raredesign]

10.2 is high for that much boost. A lot is going to depend on fuel.

Yeah, it’s looking like building mine may be a safer or more flexible option.
I also found this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6009-b53?ibanner=MobileSwitchNo

Looks like Summit somehow got word on a rating and it is only 750hp.

So when building my aluminum block, now it will come down to which internals...more specifically, which crank, since Eagle and Scat have a 50/50 following. Seems like a USA made Manley crank might be the way to go.

 

[RocketcarX]

Try asking for a short block based on a horsepower goal instead is PSI, that doesn't really make any sense for parts selection.
Basically a lowish compression 800hp deal from the way it sounds.
Order it all machined from Mod Max and assemble it yourself.
it's gonna cost $10k+ all said and done no matter how you slice it.

 

[RocketcarX]

Yeah, it’s looking like building mine may be a safer or more flexible option.
I also found this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6009-b53?ibanner=MobileSwitchNo

Looks like Summit somehow got word on a rating and it is only 750hp.

So when building my aluminum block, now it will come down to which internals...more specifically, which crank, since Eagle and Scat have a 50/50 following. Seems like a USA made Manley crank might be the way to go.

Scat and Eagle are the standard in drag racing, everything else is high dollar stuff for professionals racers and people with money to burn.
If $5500 is too rich for a finished and assembled block capable of '20 psi", a Manley crank and Manley rods are a no go.

 

[stkjock]

Yeah, it’s looking like building mine may be a safer or more flexible option.
I also found this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6009-b53?ibanner=MobileSwitchNo

Looks like Summit somehow got word on a rating and it is only 750hp.

So when building my aluminum block, now it will come down to which internals...more specifically, which crank, since Eagle and Scat have a 50/50 following. Seems like a USA made Manley crank might be the way to go.

I don't think FRPP ever rates their short blocks. However, I've read of guys having them live up to 1000 hp in a variety of 3v & 4v

 

[raredesign]

I don't think FRPP ever rates their short blocks. However, I've read of guys having them live up to 1000 hp in a variety of 3v & 4v

I just found this article below about the boss50 Block, in which a FRPP rep talks about enormous power etc and makes an assumption of 1000hp. I am not sure if it is safe to assume the block strength would be similar between both these FRPP boss blocks.

They also made mention of the aluminum blocks walking and that the bottom ends will eventually wear out. I had a different builder tell me the same, so now I am leaning even more toward an iron block. Thoughts?

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/m5lp-0803-frpp-mustang-block/

 

[01yellerCobra]

I've heard the same thing about the main caps in the iron blocks walking. I think above 1000hp sealing between the cylinders becomes an issue. I think on modular fords there's a guy that took it pretty high. He had to o-ring the deck and use of ARP studs. I don't remember exactly where he was at power wise.

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[raredesign]

I've heard the same thing about the main caps in the iron blocks walking. I think above 1000hp sealing between the cylinders becomes an issue. I think on modular fords there's a guy that took it pretty high. He had to o-ring the deck and use of ARP studs. I don't remember exactly where he was at power wise.

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It certainly hasn't been easy to find out the best path to take.

After speaking with Lito, he confirmed the lower compression ratio is the way to go if I want headroom on boost and timing to hit high numbers.

That eliminates the 10.2:1 ratio block above.
There is a block only option M-6010-BOSS50, so I could get an assembly to fit my needs. Still, if it needs prep machine work, I might as well use my aluminum block.

 

[01yellerCobra]

But the bigger bores on the Boss block unshroud the valves. Plus even with a stock stroke crank you end up with extra cubes. I went with a Boss block for those reasons.

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[raredesign]

But the bigger bores on the Boss block unshroud the valves. Plus even with a stock stroke crank you end up with extra cubes. I went with a Boss block for those reasons.

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Great points. Do you have the same Boss block (M-6010-BOSS50)?
If I go with this, will it require expensive machine work, or is it just a cleanup that's needed? What brackets did you need to mount to your engine mounts? I have the Prothanes. Thanks!

 

[06StangGT]

I'm considering doing a shortblock replacement over the winter as well. I was
planning on going with the Brenspeed B326.
9.64.1 CR with OEM heads.

My plan was to upgrade to the 8 rib setup with my Paxton. Any thoughts on this block?

 

[raredesign]

I'm considering doing a shortblock replacement over the winter as well. I was
planning on going with the Brenspeed B326.
9.64.1 CR with OEM heads.

My plan was to upgrade to the 8 rib setup with my Paxton. Any thoughts on this block?

That is a lot of money and the same block I linked above (M-6010-BOSS50) which is had for $1500, and internals would run about $2600, so they are charging $2000 in labor on a pre-bored block.