*** Oil pump worth the upgrade along with lockouts. ***

[NjsGT]

I believe as long as you rotate the motor over making sure that bottom timing dot is at 6 oclock BEFORE you disassemble, you wont have as much cam lash back, and your cam sprocket timing marks should be in the right spots or very close to it.... I didnt do that when I removed my heads from my stock block.... thats why I had to remove the rockers...

Please someone else verify or correct what I said in bold print.... I am not 100% positive

 

[GI Joe]

on the metal tensioner you will use a paper clip. they are a bit different and the reason I like them is they have an anti reverse mechanisim in them that the plastic ones do not have. It will stop them from going backwards or over tensioning when working on the timing components resulting in a tool throwing festival.The so call ed beefier guides are standard equipment now so if you order stock stuff you will get it with the "beefier rolled/reinforced edge.
I have a tool you can borrow that you put in the back of the cam to help roll the pressure off when taking the phaser off the front.
Be careful not to bend the little wings on the phaser...thats the most important things.
Forget the adjustable phasers.. They all suck...and slip. POS IMO. The tolerance are so far off on those things you can actually start replacing them with different factory ones and change the timing dial in by sevaral degree. You can degree them that way but in your case just use the lock outs and the good pump and call it a day.
Do You have a BMR K member? If you do its not hard at all to drop the pan. In fact you remover the steering shaft at the rack and remove the drivers side rack bolt, loosen ( only) the passenger side and slide the rack forward 2" and the pan will fall out on the ground. Its not a hard job just have to take your time. I have a book that has great pics and I have the shop manual on CD too which you could stop by and borrow either if you like.

 

[Pike2244]

I completely understand where you are coming from and it seems we are in almost the same exact predicament... Having just spent so much time with the car down just to have to have the front cover torn off to replace something that would have been so easy to do while the motor was being put together!!!!! It pisses me off even more that I was talking w/ one of the guys from my shop and they didn't think it was necessary and I didn't give it a second thought....

On a side note what SC did you have before the Mammoth???

 

[GI Joe]

I believe as long as you rotate the motor over making sure that bottom timing dot is at 6 oclock BEFORE you disassemble, you wont have as much cam lash back, and your cam sprocket timing marks should be in the right spots or very close to it.... I didnt do that when I removed my heads from my stock block.... thats why I had to remove the rockers...

Please someone else verify or correct what I said in bold print.... I am not 100% positive

you dont have much but its off a bit and in a interference motor I suggest using my little tool...

 

[GI Joe]

edit actually yes if you remover them all. The in car ford manual guides you to do it with removing just a couple and its like a truck hitting you when you remove the phaser..lol

 

[SherrodMustang]

on the metal tensioner you will use a paper clip. they are a bit different and the reason I like them is they have an anti reverse mechanisim in them that the plastic ones do not have. It will stop them from going backwards or over tensioning when working on the timing components resulting in a tool throwing festival.The so call ed beefier guides are standard equipment now so if you order stock stuff you will get it with the "beefier rolled/reinforced edge.
I have a tool you can borrow that you put in the back of the cam to help roll the pressure off when taking the phaser off the front.
Be careful not to bend the little wings on the phaser...thats the most important things.
Forget the adjustable phasers.. They all suck...and slip. POS IMO. The tolerance are so far off on those things you can actually start replacing them with different factory ones and change the timing dial in by sevaral degree. You can degree them that way but in your case just use the lock outs and the good pump and call it a day.
Do You have a BMR K member? If you do its not hard at all to drop the pan. In fact you remover the steering shaft at the rack and remove the drivers side rack bolt, loosen ( only) the passenger side and slide the rack forward 2" and the pan will fall out on the ground. Its not a hard job just have to take your time. I have a book that has great pics and I have the shop manual on CD too which you could stop by and borrow either if you like.

Good to know on the tensioners, that is what I thought they had was a metal paper clip that held them. So the stock oem guides are the beefier parts. Figuered I would replace them while I was doing it. Ran the stock ones from the old motor on the B302 when Brenspeed did it.

No BMR K member yet, stock one still.

Think I am going to stay away from the adjustable sprockets, order the BBR lockouts today for the VCT and new cam bolts. Just had some concerns getting the cars timing right. Never trackled it before on a Mod motor.

The tool keeps the cam form releasing like crazy once the tensione is loose? Will I be able to get it back in line with a wrench on the sprocket and lining up the marks?

Just had some conserns with the timing part.

I completely understand where you are coming from and it seems we are in almost the same exact predicament... Having just spent so much time with the car down just to have to have the front cover torn off to replace something that would have been so easy to do while the motor was being put together!!!!! It pisses me off even more that I was talking w/ one of the guys from my shop and they didn't think it was necessary and I didn't give it a second thought....

On a side note what SC did you have before the Mammoth???

Not to say anything about Brenspeed. Thay are a great bunch of guys and make sure they keep the customer happy. Talk to Chandler all the time by email about this and that. Just wished I had upgraded to the billet oil pump when I had the motor going in and the put the lockouts in too.
Had even asked about it with them and was told that they have never had a failuer in their cars and they race them all the time. So felt comfortable with the GT500 pump.

Now looking for 800 hp or more and seeing more and more pumps shattered. I dont feel so comfortable about it, not with more than 15 g's in the motor and blower...

 

[NjsGT]

you dont have much but its off a bit and in a interference motor I suggest using my little tool...

Yea, you can get it by grabbing the cam sprocket bolt with a socket and move it either way to hit the timing mark on the chains... but if you dont set it up at the 6 oclock mark, you cant rotate the cams while the rockers are there due to piston interference....
So what is this tool you have?

 

[GI Joe]

Good to know on the tensioners, that is what I thought they had was a metal paper clip that held them. So the stock oem guides are the beefier parts. Figuered I would replace them while I was doing it. Ran the stock ones from the old motor on the B302 when Brenspeed did it.

No BMR K member yet, stock one still.

Think I am going to stay away from the adjustable sprockets, order the BBR lockouts today for the VCT and new cam bolts. Just had some concerns getting the cars timing right. Never trackled it before on a Mod motor.

The tool keeps the cam form releasing like crazy once the tensione is loose? Will I be able to get it back in line with a wrench on the sprocket and lining up the marks?

Just had some conserns with the timing part.


Not to say anything about Brenspeed. Thay are a great bunch of guys and make sure they keep the customer happy. Talk to Chandler all the time by email about this and that. Just wished I had upgraded to the billet oil pump when I had the motor going in and the put the lockouts in too.
Had even asked about it with them and was told that they have never had a failuer in their cars and they race them all the time. So felt comfortable with the GT500 pump.

Now looking for 800 hp or more and seeing more and more pumps shattered. I dont feel so comfortable about it, not with more than 15 g's in the motor and blower...

oh yea its just when you take a couple out it wants to roll...you roll it back put the phaser on and put em back in..

 

[GI Joe]

Yea, you can get it by grabbing the cam sprocket bolt with a socket and move it either way to hit the timing mark on the chains... but if you dont set it up at the 6 oclock mark, you cant rotate the cams while the rockers are there due to piston interference....
So what is this tool you have?

so on the 2 V and 4N cars the cam are square shaped in the middle so you can put a cam lock tool over them. The 3V cams dont have that...but in the back side of each cam there is a "D shaped concave socket. I ground a 3/8" socket extension down just right to fit in there and it lets you ease the tension off or in the case of "just doing a lockout job" hold the can so it dont roll while a sencond person goes to the bench and does the 3 minute mod and returns the phaser...
will post a pic in aminute...run out and take a pic.
Dave

 

[SherrodMustang]

Yea, you can get it by grabbing the cam sprocket bolt with a socket and move it either way to hit the timing mark on the chains... but if you dont set it up at the 6 oclock mark, you cant rotate the cams while the rockers are there due to piston interference....
So what is this tool you have?

Biggest thing is make sure to have the crank marks at 6 o'clock before doing anything with the timing.

oh yea its just when you take a couple out it wants to roll...you roll it back put the phaser on and put em back in..

So just roll them back with the phasers back on to the correct position they came off from on the chains.

 

[Pike2244]

No I completely understand and I have heard nothing but good things coming out of Brenspeed but I feel like you are preaching to the choir... That is almost the same exact conversation I had with my shop: They have done many setups similar to mine and never had an incident where the pump failed... Blah Blah Blah. I don't fault the shop at all b/c ultimately the buck stops and starts with me, I just wish I did this earlier thats all I am saying!!!!

So what SC did you change from???

 

[SherrodMustang]

No I completely understand and I have heard nothing but good things coming out of Brenspeed but I feel like you are preaching to the choir... That is almost the same exact conversation I had with my shop: They have done many setups similar to mine and never had an incident where the pump failed... Blah Blah Blah. I don't fault the shop at all b/c ultimately the buck stops and starts with me, I just wish I did this earlier thats all I am saying!!!!

So what SC did you change from???

Sorry, Saleen with 2.8 pulley and 18% overdrive.

Too funny.. same boat with this.

 

[Pike2244]

I mean I won't be making near the amount of power you will be making but same boat none the less!!!!

 

[Corpo]

So I need to start with the car at TDC, best way to get to TDC on 3v car?

Then unbolt the tensioner from the head and the chain will jump on the sprocket with the release of the tension on the cams. No harm from this? Valves will not hit the pistons or something crazy!!

Can I say, rotate the engine until the timing marks are lined up with the chains and start from there? Can it even be lined up once it has been ran on the car? Release the tensioners freeing up the chain from the sprockets and let the cams loose.
Once I replace the oil pump, put it all back together by roatating the cams back with a wrench back to the starting position and lining the chains back up or do the cams move so far as not to be able to line back up. How far do they release?



Must have been something Brenspeed used to keep the tensioners locked closed. Will it come with new ones from Ford, should have a retaining clip?



Now.... if I remove the rockers it will not slip at all. I guess that takes the tension out of the cams. Is this more work than it is worth?

18mm socket and a ratchet. Turn the crank over with the car in neutral. Leave your spark plugs in and you will fight compression. Put it in gear to hold it at tdc. On your crank timing chain sprocket there is a timing mark you want at 6 o'clock. It will be lined up with marks on the cam sprockets at this point. In other words this is timed. Turn your engine over 360 degrees and the marks will be lined up again. It's the way it's designed. Can only go one way. The sprocket doesnt jump far when you release the tension. When I did it there wasn't any slap. If your proficient or know someone who is proficient with a spring compressor tool for 3v heads go ahead and pull the rockers that are on the loaded springs and you won't have to worry, your gonna need a hard getting the timing back together anyway. But if you suck with that tool, letting it pop is easier.

Yea, you can get it by grabbing the cam sprocket bolt with a socket and move it either way to hit the timing mark on the chains... but if you dont set it up at the 6 oclock mark, you cant rotate the cams while the rockers are there due to piston interference....
So what is this tool you have?

I would turn the engine over via the crank and not the cam.. Maybe just me.

 

[SherrodMustang]

So I have been told that the best way is to remove the followers from the head to keep the cam from releasing and avoid possible damage to the valves.

Can you just remove the followers by turn the motor over by hand and popping them out with a screwdriver when no pressure is on them. This would release all the pressure on the cams and would allow me to release the tensioners with no pop or chance of valve piston clearance.

Then replace the pump and install the lockouts. Then line the crank to 6'oclock and the cams lined up at the 11'oclock and 12o'clock put the chains back on lined up. Release the tensioners and rotate the motor by hand on the crank and install the followers in reverse order.

I was under the impression you had to have a tool to install the followers that compressed the springs? Can it be done by hand by rotating the motor and installing when the tension would be off them and will the chains stay lined up and not jump timing from the tension of the springs and followers being installed. The guides and metal tensioners are enough to keep chains in place while installing the followers?

 

[Corpo]

If your rocking the stock cams there won't be any piston to valve contact. But I don't know if popping them out with a screw driver is possible.. There is a spring compressor tool, you can buy fords or freedom racings. I recommend freedom racings tool as there customer support is bar none.

The guides and tensioners can hold the timing while you turn the engine by hand. But you should prime the oil system before engine start.

 

[SherrodMustang]

Aftermarket cams 127350 no lockout required. So I would imgaine they don't come close to the pistons, not sure on this.

I was under the impression you had to have a spring compressor tool to get the follower out of the head and back in too.

So confused now... LOL...

 

[Corpo]

Aftermarket cams 127350 no lockout required. So I would imgaine they don't come close to the pistons, not sure on this.

I was under the impression you had to have a spring compressor tool to get the follower out of the head and back in too.

So confused now... LOL...

Well if you think about it, the 127350's have to be good for 60degree's of movement. I got my 127600's in without any problems with tension on the cams. It was a little tricky, but so is the spring compressor tool you need to use to pull the rockers.

 

[SherrodMustang]

So will the motor be at TDC when the crank mark is at 6 o'clock position and the phaser will be at the 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock position?

If I loosen up the cam bolts with the chains connected on and then slowly release the tensioners on the guides. The chains should start to release and the cams is going to release and jump the chain at some point on bothsides, the scary part. Will the valves hit the pistons by any chance at all? How much movement will there be?

Then replace the pump and install the lockouts. Start by running the chains to the phasers. They are not going to line up due to the release of the cams and the tension when released during taken them off. Do I just get a socket on the cam bolt and move the cam until it lines back up with help of a friend to the marks on the chain? Then release the pins in the tensioner to keep it in place and then the other side?

Another question comes up with this. How do I keep the cam bolt from getting over torqued if there is alot of tension on the cam, or not a issue? Do I torque the cams bolts to the correct spec once everything is lined up and installed by hold the crank with a ratchet or putting the car into gear?

 

[NjsGT]

So will the motor be at TDC when the crank mark is at 6 o'clock position and the phaser will be at the 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock position?

If I loosen up the cam bolts with the chains connected on and then slowly release the tensioners on the guides. The chains should start to release and the cams is going to release and jump the chain at some point on bothsides, the scary part. Will the valves hit the pistons by any chance at all? How much movement will there be?

Then replace the pump and install the lockouts. Start by running the chains to the phasers. They are not going to line up due to the release of the cams and the tension when released during taken them off. Do I just get a socket on the cam bolt and move the cam until it lines back up with help of a friend to the marks on the chain? Then release the pins in the tensioner to keep it in place and then the other side?

Another question comes up with this. How do I keep the cam bolt from getting over torqued if there is alot of tension on the cam, or not a issue? Do I torque the cams bolts to the correct spec once everything is lined up and installed by hold the crank with a ratchet or putting the car into gear?

For your bold print question... I asked JimIII from JDM the same question... Heres his response, word for word

"If the timing marks were off and you spun it over by hand there is a good chance you would still have clearance. If the valves hit you would feel it. The difference however with a running motor is the VCT is operating, now if the cams went into full retard or advance its posssible the valves would touch."
Most likly you cant hit the pistons just by turning the motor over by hand, again the 6 oclock crank position makes sure of this.... I only pulled my rockers for a piece of mind knowing there was no way that I hit pistons..... Just me being paranoid