05 to 09 coyote generation 2 swap! Guide and help tips

[2008_ScarlettGT]

I’ve seen a VIN flash mentioned in this thread. What is the purpose of this and how is it accomplished? I am doing a 3-2-1 Frankenstein coyote swap and running a PATS deleted gen 1 ECU.

 

[mattjames]

I’ve seen a VIN flash mentioned in this thread. What is the purpose of this and how is it accomplished? I am doing a 3-2-1 Frankenstein coyote swap and running a PATS deleted gen 1 ECU.

No point if you have PATS deleted

 

[CoyoteRed]

Been awhile since I checked this. So if I turn down the fuel pressure at the rail would this solve my problem? Could it be that easy? Thought I needed to remain return style so the emissions sensors won’t throw codes. What needs changed to run return-less?

 

[mattjames]

Been awhile since I checked this. So if I turn down the fuel pressure at the rail would this solve my problem? Could it be that easy? Thought I needed to remain return style so the emissions sensors won’t throw codes. What needs changed to run return-less?

The emissions shouldn't care if it's return or returnless.

 

[Justin Bonsell]

I just finished an 05 to gen 2 swap with a factory gen 2 PCM only. Anyone here with a gen 2 control pack know how the ac input switch is set up? My non-control-pack PCM relies on canbus for communicating between the AC dash button and the pcm. According to some of the control pack instructions, there's a wire in the 16 pin connector for an AC switch. I can see the parameter to enable it in my tune software(Its turned off on oem strategy but the control packs have it on). I believe this will make my AC work, but I don't know what pin it uses. Control pack instructions don't show c175b pinout or any actual wiring diagram. It would be really helpful if someone with a control pack could probe the c175b pin it goes to.

Also, I have a way to make tach, speedo, and temperature gauges work with an Arduino translating CAN bus messages. Still figuring out some bugs with speedo but it works most of the time, tach and temp are flawless. I also have an excel spreadsheet of my wiring if anyone else is interested in hardwiring a stock computer.

 

[mattjames]

I just finished an 05 to gen 2 swap with a factory gen 2 PCM only. Anyone here with a gen 2 control pack know how the ac input switch is set up? My non-control-pack PCM relies on canbus for communicating between the AC dash button and the pcm. According to some of the control pack instructions, there's a wire in the 16 pin connector for an AC switch. I can see the parameter to enable it in my tune software(Its turned off on oem strategy but the control packs have it on). I believe this will make my AC work, but I don't know what pin it uses. Control pack instructions don't show c175b pinout or any actual wiring diagram. It would be really helpful if someone with a control pack could probe the c175b pin it goes to.

Also, I have a way to make tach, speedo, and temperature gauges work with an Arduino translating CAN bus messages. Still figuring out some bugs with speedo but it works most of the time, tach and temp are flawless. I also have an excel spreadsheet of my wiring if anyone else is interested in hardwiring a stock computer.

View attachment 108912

Interested in this Arduino item you speak of. What info do you have on it?

 

[Justin Bonsell]

Arduino is a common microcontroller thats pretty easy to use/learn. I got the arduino uno specifically. You hook it to power and can upload a python program over usb. It basically just constantly runs a given program as long as its on. Sending data through various pins.

Theres these can bus modules that can be set to either send or recieve can messages in raw hexadecimal format. I found a product that has 2 modules, linked below. I set one to constantly scan the can wires coming from the pcm. The other sends messages to the gauge cluster.
The gauge cluster is looking for different CAN ID's than the pcm outputs.
The program I wrote looks for the speed/tach/temp/CEL/etc can IDs from the 5.0 pcm and stores their values. The can data isnt the true value. For example, 0-100 mph is represented by values between 1000-4000 for the s197, and 500-1000 for the coyote pcm. The program calculates the true speed value, then converts to the scale the gauges will understand, then sends the data to the cluster with the correct s197 CAN ID. It seperates the pcm from the cluster so there no risk of messing up the pcm with values it doesnt understand.

Luckily i found different sources where people had already reverse engineered the CAN IDs i was looking for, usually done for race datalogging purposes. I could use this method to make my A/C work if I knew the right ID.

Super easy to wire up. Gave the arduino switched ignition power so it runs when the car is on. Removed the cluster and snipped the 2 can bus wires in half. The 2 wires coming from the firewall/pcm connect to the input can module, the 2 coming from the gauge connect to the output module. I made a little enclosure and have it double sided taped under the dash. I left acces to the usb port open so I can tweak the code if needed.

I can make a diagram/upload my code if anyone is interested.

Dual CAN Bus Interface For Arduino Due With Extended Power Range

The board incorporates dual CAN Bus transceivers required by the two integrated CAN controller ports on the Arduino Due. It supports input power of 7 to 36 VDC.

copperhilltech.com

 

[Justin Bonsell]

Also, the speedometer bug may just be an issue with my sensor. I would love to have someone else attempt this to verify. Itll randomly jump to 20mph while sitting at a stop. I have verified its not a code issue, meaning its one of 2 things.
1. My speed sensor/wiring is faulty
Or 2. The gauge cluster has some sort of filtering to ignore bad data/signal noise.

 

[mattjames]

Also, the speedometer bug may just be an issue with my sensor. I would love to have someone else attempt this to verify. Itll randomly jump to 20mph while sitting at a stop. I have verified its not a code issue, meaning its one of 2 things.
1. My speed sensor/wiring is faulty
Or 2. The gauge cluster has some sort of filtering to ignore bad data/signal noise.

Good stuff. I usually deal with gen one ECUs where they’re 99% compatible with the cluster and SJB of these 05-10 cars.

I just did a swap in a 2014 expedition but I’m not sure if these will help

 

[Juice]

From what I recall, only Gen1 pcm will work with the 05-09 cluster. That's why I went Gen1. Was not going to deal with compatibility issues. You have to swap in a gen2 cluster, which means dash swap.

 

[Justin Bonsell]

Gen 2 swap into the expedition? If so, if you can find the CAN IDs for speedo,tach,etc you can just change a few lines in my program and it should work. Theres whole websites and forums dedicated to CAN decoding.

True juice, but my arduino CAN translator gets rid of compatibility issues. All my gauges work. Took like 2 days to make, way easier than a dash swap.

Back to my original topic, what c175b pin is for A/C request on a gen 2 control pack. I live in texas and need to get out of this heat.

 

[mattjames]

Gen 2 swap into the expedition? If so, if you can find the CAN IDs for speedo,tach,etc you can just change a few lines in my program and it should work. Theres whole websites and forums dedicated to CAN decoding.

True juice, but my arduino CAN translator gets rid of compatibility issues. All my gauges work. Took like 2 days to make, way easier than a dash swap.

Back to my original topic, what c175b pin is for A/C request on a gen 2 control pack. I live in texas and need to get out of this heat.

No Gen 1, everything bolts up and you can re use the transmission and trans harness. ECU even bolts in place. Motor mounts get re used. All gages work except the ABS and Airbag modules aren't happy with not communicating with the PCM

 

[Justin Bonsell]

damn, that is nice. A lot less BS than the gen 2 for sure. I've heard rumors of success using a coyote abs module but id imagine there's some mounting/hose fab involved. I may give it an attempt and report back but it's pretty low on my list. who needs em anyway

 

[bacchus203]

... you can find the CAN IDs for speedo,tach,etc you can just change a few lines in my program and it should work. Theres whole websites and forums dedicated to CAN decoding.

True juice, but my arduino CAN translator gets rid of compatibility issues. All my gauges work. Took like 2 days to make, way easier than a dash swap.

Back to my original topic, what c175b pin is for A/C request on a gen 2 control pack. I live in texas and need to get out of this heat.

I am about to do this with an Arduino so that I can clean up the TACH signal from the coyote PCM to the 2007 cluster. It is intermittent at times and I believe reformatting the signal to 2007 CAN bus packets will do the trick.

BTW, also Texas and just now got the A/C working. Bypassed the PCM all together. Now I am daily driving it.

 

[Justin Bonsell]

I am about to do this with an Arduino so that I can clean up the TACH signal from the coyote PCM to the 2007 cluster. It is intermittent at times and I believe reformatting the signal to 2007 CAN bus packets will do the trick.

BTW, also Texas and just now got the A/C working. Bypassed the PCM all together. Now I am daily driving it.

Love to hear it. The 5.0 tach signal on canID 0x204 bytes 3 and 4 works wonderfully. Sending to cluster on 0x201 byte 4 and 5. I can send code/conversion formulas if you need help. Still wasn't able to get speedometer from the coyote pcm. Seems like all the speed data on canbus gets pulled from the abs and wheel speed sensors, which I don't have. Wrote some code that taps directly into the VSS wire to measure pulses per second, then sends can message to the gauge, hopefully that works a bit better.

Still no luck with the A/C, but its cooled down here so I have time. I'd like to keep the pcm idle raise logic if possible. Found a CANID that correlates with climate function but not sure if its going to do anything. With bypassing the pcm, does it bog down at idle when the compressor kicks on?