08 GT having issues running

[bunkered13]

Car is an 08 gt with a turbo. Stock motor. Last night i was leaving work and the car seemed sluggish to start, like the starter was having to work alot harder then it should have too.

I figured the battery was going bad since its around 5 years old. Sure enough i had it tested and no bueno. Replaced the battery and still having problems.

If i can get the car to start, it will idle fine but if i push in the clutch to go in reverse, the car shakes real bad after the car starts moving. it acts like the car is only running on 4 cylinders.

The codes that show up on my handheld are:

P0022
P0012
P0340
P0344

I am really needing some help figuring this thing out. Thank you for any help in advance.

 

[01yellerCobra]

That's exactly the symptoms ours had when the driver side phaser died. But I think yours is the passenger side. You'll have to remove the valve cover to check.

 

[bunkered13]

How do I check or tell if the phaser is bad?

 

[702GT]

The P0012 and P0024 codes are telling you both cam banks are over-retard timing and over-advanced timing.

The P0340 and P-0344 are telling you the cam position sensor are intermittent.

You can find the detailed description at the top of the Tech Section page, it is a sticky "All ODBII Trouble Codes" and open the PDF file.

I'm not entirely familiar with the failed alternator symptoms, but I recall when the alternator is taking a dump/malfunctioning it causes cam codes.

As for feeling like the car is running on 4 cylinders, if the cam sensors are bonkers or your VCT system is failing, there is a real chance you're going to damage the engine if you continue to drive the car. You may also have a timing chain issue, if a guide failed or tensioner isn't working, you may have jumped a tooth. If one cam bank is swinging full retard timing and the other is full advance, you're gonna have serious problems. I suggest you park the car 'til you sort through your sensors/datalogs.

Just by your description, the car has trouble starting and "feels like it's running on 4 cylinders" I'm going to go with you have a true cam position problem. Could be faulty sensors/wiring or actually bad VCT components.

Start with your wires/sensors first. Make sure both banks sensors are plugged in and the wires aren't damaged. The sensors are basically magnets, I highly doubt the sensors themselves are failing.

If the wires/sensors are good, test your alternator. Start the car, and remove the positive terminal from the battery and apply a multi-meter to check voltage output from the alternator. It should read 14.0-14.5v, pretty solid. I'm not experienced with the alternator issues as far as throwing cam codes goes, hopefully someone else can chime in.

Once the alternator checks out, you're going to have to dig in and datalog the car. You need to see what the cams are doing at idle and (careful) driving. If they are definitely reporting dicked up cam positions then it's time to call Steve@Tasca and get a timing kit. The timing kit will come with new guides, chain, phasers, and all that jazz to fix you up.

 

[bunkered13]

I checked all the wires and they seem to be good (no knicks, pinches, or damage).

When I say it acts like its running on 4 cylinders, its running really choppy, worse than any big cam out there.

I checked the oil pressure and I have 18 psi base oil pressure at idle when the car is running smooth. When trying to engage clutch and move the car, op drops to 0 then ranged from 5-10 psi. When the engine starts clattering it held 16 psi then jumped to 18.

 

[07 Boss]

I checked all the wires and they seem to be good (no knicks, pinches, or damage).

When I say it acts like its running on 4 cylinders, its running really choppy, worse than any big cam out there.

I checked the oil pressure and I have 18 psi base oil pressure at idle when the car is running smooth. When trying to engage clutch and move the car, op drops to 0 then ranged from 5-10 psi. When the engine starts clattering it held 16 psi then jumped to 18.

That seems pretty low, I cant remember what mine is at warm idle but I think it's at least 10 psi higher than that. And when I give it any gas it jumps up pretty darn high.

 

[bunkered13]

Mine does the same thing about pressure jumping a lot higher once you press on the gas.

 

[01yellerCobra]

How do I check or tell if the phaser is bad?

On mine the spring on the front was unwound. Well, part of it. It took removing the valve cover a couple times to see it. But we had the exact same symptoms.

Edit: My thread....

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4930

 

[702GT]

I checked all the wires and they seem to be good (no knicks, pinches, or damage).

When I say it acts like its running on 4 cylinders, its running really choppy, worse than any big cam out there.

I checked the oil pressure and I have 18 psi base oil pressure at idle when the car is running smooth. When trying to engage clutch and move the car, op drops to 0 then ranged from 5-10 psi. When the engine starts clattering it held 16 psi then jumped to 18.

Very bad, you need to park that thing and dig into the VCT/timing system. Cold idle oil pressure should be around 50psi, hot temp idle around 25-30psi (5w20 oil). Around 1500 rpm hot temp oil should be well above 50psi. Normal street cruising oil pressure should be 60-70psi, WOT 75-85psi. Your oil pressure should never go to 0 while in operation. Shut that shit off and dont run it til you find out where your oil is bleeding from.

I highly recommend doing a full timing kit to start with. One way or another its a valuable piece of mind for the cost. If the issue persists after a full timing kit, you may have an oil pump on its way out, if your oil pressure doesnt come back after the timing kit.

 

[bunkered13]

Very bad, you need to park that thing and dig into the VCT/timing system. Cold idle oil pressure should be around 50psi, hot temp idle around 25-30psi (5w20 oil). Around 1500 rpm hot temp oil should be well above 50psi. Normal street cruising oil pressure should be 60-70psi, WOT 75-85psi. Your oil pressure should never go to 0 while in operation. Shut that shit off and dont run it til you find out where your oil is bleeding from.

I highly recommend doing a full timing kit to start with. One way or another its a valuable piece of mind for the cost. If the issue persists after a full timing kit, you may have an oil pump on its way out, if your oil pressure doesnt come back after the timing kit.

Since it has given me issues I haven't driven it. I loaded it on a trailer and took it home.

I guess the bright side is if I need to go thru the timing set, I already have a MMR oil pump new in the box sitting around for when I was going to actually BUILD the motor.

 

[702GT]

Since it has given me issues I haven't driven it. I loaded it on a trailer and took it home.

I guess the bright side is if I need to go thru the timing set, I already have a MMR oil pump new in the box sitting around for when I was going to actually BUILD the motor.

I'm not familiar with the MMR oil pump specs. IMO I would save my high dollar oil pump for my high dollar built and balanced engine, not use it on a OEM motor. I assume you know the procedure for replacing the oil pump while the motor is still in the car. Again, IMO, if you're going to replace the oil pump while doing the timing kit, I'd just go with another OEM pump. Save your good pump for the built motor.

I can't remember if the VCT Solenoids come with the timing kit, you may want to verify this with Steve@Tasca (assuming you order from him). I know for sure the phasers came in my kit, just can't remember if I ordered solenoids separately.

 

[01yellerCobra]

I can't remember if the VCT Solenoids come with the timing kit, you may want to verify this with Steve@Tasca (assuming you order from him). I know for sure the phasers came in my kit, just can't remember if I ordered solenoids separately.

The kit doesn't include the solenoids. They have to be ordered seperately.

 

[mr_exon]

They never told me why it only had 12psi of oil presure but I did get a new engine out of the deal....

 

[bunkered13]

I have changed out both cam phasers and the car is still having issues.

When you first start the car, everything is fine, good oil pressure, car idles fine. Once it hits operating temperature all hell breaks loose. It will throw code p0022 and the car chugs really bad when you press the clutch in. If you give it a little throttle and release the clutch, it smoothes out.

Any other ideas?

 

[702GT]

I have changed out both cam phasers and the car is still having issues.

When you first start the car, everything is fine, good oil pressure, car idles fine. Once it hits operating temperature all hell breaks loose. It will throw code p0022 and the car chugs really bad when you press the clutch in. If you give it a little throttle and release the clutch, it smoothes out.

Any other ideas?

You did the full timing kit w/Solenoids or just phasers?

 

[nbk13nw]

I had the P0340 and P0344 codes when my alt went bad. Tested fine at the store. But I understand it was a diode issue that did not show in standard tests. Replaced it and the codes went away and car ran fine.

 

[Postman]

I had the P0340 and P0344 codes when my alt went bad. Tested fine at the store. But I understand it was a diode issue that did not show in standard tests. Replaced it and the codes went away and car ran fine.

What ALT did you replace it with?

 

[Postman]

....