2005 built 4.6 with whipple..need more

[saud alzaabi]

Its a 2005 Mustsang GT with build shortblock, Livernois stg 3 heads with spr stage 3 blower cams..whipple 2.3L +21 psi of boost on vp109 fuel

Car is pusshing somewhere areound +620 rwhp...and in need of more.. Any suggestions ?

Any one knows better cams ? gauranteed ?
Keeping the whipple and swapping out the 3650 to a TH400 or a c4 in the future. but for now more power is needed.

 

[blownGTvert]

Youve maxed out that combination and are out of blower. Been there myself. A shot of nitrous may ne an option. However, A different power adder is required for a significant power increase.

 

[stkjock]

laughing gas

 

[skwerl]

That's an awful lot of input for only 620. I don't know what to tell you but I have 640rwhp with only 14.5 lbs of boost on pump gas. With a PD style blower there are tons of gains to be made by opening up the intake. Ported tb, ported elbow, etc.

 

[REDS197]

What Throttle body?

 

[JimIII@JDM]

With a PD style blower there are tons of gains to be made by opening up the intake. Ported tb, ported elbow, etc.

The Whipple 2.3L plenum elbow becomes very restrictive when moving as much air as the OP is (20+ psi) If he can port the elbow and fit a GT500 or Monoblade throttle body he would benefit big time.

Also as for mentioned, better cam profile. What "Stage 3" cams are we talking about? We have a set of custom grind blower cams that we use in our higher power applications that may benefit you.

JimIII

 

[06gtimpact]

What are the specs on your short block?

 

[Sactown]

What are your inlet temps? At 21psi they must been extremely high. I personally would go with a different power adder or little spray. I switched from a Pro Charge to a turbo and make almost the same power with 3-4 less pounds of boost.

 

[skwerl]

Also, what's the compression ratio/dish on the pistons? Low compression equals low performance. You need no deeper than a 6.5cc dish on the pistons or else you are leaving power on the table.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Put a 3.4L Whipple on it and call it done. You can make up to 1200hp with that blower.

You can get some more power out of it with some work on the elbow, a bigger TB and bigger CAI. But not a ton. The most I have ever seen one make on race fuel is 652 at the tires and it had every trick in the book.

Elbow mod
L&M 72mm TB
127mm CAI

Here are some pics of the elbow mod:

 

[BruceH]

Anything above 17psi on a 2.3 whipple is diminishing returns. Like others have said the intake becomes a restriction. If you have e85 available it will give you more power and reduce combustion temps. I gained over 50rwhp just by switching from 92 pump gas to e85. All that was changed in that tune was the fuel stioch. Same timing, same lambda, different fuel, 50+rwhp.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Anything above 17psi on a 2.3 whipple is diminishing returns. Like others have said the intake becomes a restriction. If you have e85 available it will give you more power and reduce combustion temps. I gained over 50rwhp just by switching from 92 pump gas to e85. All that was changed in that tune was the fuel stioch. Same timing, same lambda, different fuel, 50+rwhp.

He will see some in chamber IAT drops with e85. No doubt. So at the top of a run he may pull less timing. But I doubt he will be able to make any more power than he does with VP109. And you can jack the timing threshold up to 150deg or so on VP109, so the cooling may not do him much good there either.

I'm just spitballin, but I don't see e85 being worth 50hp over VP109. Heat soaked sitting in traffic, maybe. Cooled down between runs at the track, not so much.

He can put a 3.4L Whipple on it and make 150hp more running pump gas.

 

[crownaviation]

Put a 3.4L Whipple on it and call it done. You can make up to 1200hp with that blower.

Yeah... waiting on that.. wink wink

 

[BruceH]

He will see some in chamber IAT drops with e85. No doubt. So at the top of a run he may pull less timing. But I doubt he will be able to make any more power than he does with VP109. And you can jack the timing threshold up to 150deg or so on VP109, so the cooling may not do him much good there either.

I'm just spitballin, but I don't see e85 being worth 50hp over VP109. Heat soaked sitting in traffic, maybe. Cooled down between runs at the track, not so much.

He can put a 3.4L Whipple on it and make 150hp more running pump gas.

I'm just stating my experience. 17 degrees of spark advance and a whipple with 15psi. It made 53x with 92 octane. The base e85 tune was the same as the gasoline tune but the stoich had been changed to 9.8. Same motor, same dyno, made 575 but had to abort the pull because it was running out of fuel at 5700 rpms. The difference in hp at 5700 rpms was over 50.

Does race gas usually pick up hp without increasing spark advance?

 

[Department Of Boost]

Does race gas usually pick up hp without increasing spark advance?

No, but race fuel will allow you to add spark and you can rise the IAT threshold.

Does e85 pick up HP without adding more timing?

 

[Department Of Boost]

Yeah... waiting on that.. wink wink

Isn't it 6deg there right now?

 

[crownaviation]

Isn't it 6deg there right now?

No, 4. Supposed to get down to -2 ambient with -25 wind chill in the morning.

... which btw is perfect garage weather to do a manifold swap.. cough, cough

 

[BruceH]

No, but race fuel will allow you to add spark and you can rise the IAT threshold.

Does e85 pick up HP without adding more timing?

Yes.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Yes.

Would you attribute that to the cooler intake charge?

Does race gas usually pick up hp without increasing spark advance?

Now that I think about it yes, some race fuels (VP109 being one of them) has more energy in the fuel. So it will make more power than pump.

On the motorcycles we used to see a 7-10% power increase when using the nicer race fuels. No tuning changes.

 

[stkjock]

Would you attribute that to the cooler intake charge?

I would say it was from the 30-35% more fuel in the mix