2011 vs 2005-2010 manual trans

[beefcake]

the auto will be quite a bit trickier.... my guess is that will not be a cost effective swap, the ECM on a 5r car will not control a 6 speed.

I figured that would probably be the case.

My vette had a nice first like that and even with 3.42's it came out really nice

 

[Vapour Trails]

Graph of the T3650 vs. MT82, both with 3.31 gears and 27" tire.
4th gear in the MT82 is exactly equivalent to 3rd in the T3650, and 5th in the MT82 is essentially equal to 4th in the T3650.
The steepness of the lines indicates the torque multiplication.

 

[carbd86gt]

Why? It was closen because ratios are closer together. The T3550 has some massive gaps between ratios.

390 lbs-ft is shit for torque?

I'd see what I can make for a excel graph for a visual demostration.

With the MT-82 transmission, I think 4.10 gears are going to cease being part of the Mustang venacular. However, there are people insane enough to put 4.56 gears in the current trasmissions.

Peak torque is not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about low end grunt, this new 5.0L motor most likely doesn't have it as it has a 7k RPM redline. The close ratios are to keep the RPM up between shifts, that's why 5th is 1:1 and not 4th. They don't want to RPM to fall cause its probably a dog. The Vettes and Vipers have closer ratio 6 speeds, still with a 1:1 4th gear. You know what other cars have a 1:1 5th gear? Subaru WRX and the Evo, no low end torque. I'm sure just driving around the car may be fun, but at the drag strip, it may be a PITA.

 

[jroc07gt]

250 MPH That would be sweet, but what's the actual top speed?

 

[Vapour Trails]

Peak torque is not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about low end grunt, this new 5.0L motor most likely doesn't have it as it has a 7k RPM redline. The close ratios are to keep the RPM up between shifts, that's why 5th is 1:1 and not 4th. They don't want to RPM to fall cause its probably a dog. The Vettes and Vipers have closer ratio 6 speeds, still with a 1:1 4th gear. You know what other cars have a 1:1 5th gear? Subaru WRX and the Evo, no low end torque. I'm sure just driving around the car may be fun, but at the drag strip, it may be a PITA.

Sure, but why don't you like 5th being 1:1?

The 5th and 6th gears in Vette's and Vipers are both cruising gears, kind of redundant. Here Ford has made 5th more than a cruise gear, that's a good thing AFAIC.

I think the 5.0L will have superior torque at low rpm than either the 2 or 3 valve engines because of the extra displacement and ability to vary cam timing of each camshaft.

 

[carbd86gt]

Sure, but why don't you like 5th being 1:1?

The 5th and 6th gears in Vette's and Vipers are both cruising gears, kind of redundant. Here Ford has made 5th more than a cruise gear, that's a good thing AFAIC.

I think the 5.0L will have superior torque at low rpm than either the 2 or 3 valve engines because of the extra displacement and ability to vary cam timing of each camshaft.

I don't like it purely from a drag racing perspective, that's all. I think it will be nice to drive and have fun with for sure, but I'm a drag racer.

 

[BSell]

the big diff really isn't going to be highway speeds as the final gear is almost identical,

the thing to look at is the 4th gear which is way diff than the 1:1, you obviously won't want to be shifting into 5th gear at the track.

the benefit of the different gear set will be good. you'll be able to run a lower gear and get better hwy mpg while still going through in 4th gear

Fourth is the new third.

Any idea how much time in the 1/4 will be saved by the shorter ratios and extra gear between first and 1:1?

 

[BSell]

Sure, but why don't you like 5th being 1:1?

The 5th and 6th gears in Vette's and Vipers are both cruising gears, kind of redundant. Here Ford has made 5th more than a cruise gear, that's a good thing AFAIC.

I think the 5.0L will have superior torque at low rpm than either the 2 or 3 valve engines because of the extra displacement and ability to vary cam timing of each camshaft.

With the shorter gears and the extra gear before going to 1:1, coupled with what should be more torque; I think I see why Ford put the skip-shift in the car. For most street driving you won't need at least one of the gears on the way to fifth or sixth.

How soon until somebody makes a kit to defeat the skip shift?

 

[antonio1988]

subscribed, very interesting read and thanks for the info OP

 

[beefcake]

the more i think about it, i gotta think you still won't need to go to 5th

your effective ratio with the new 4th an a smaller gear, will be the same effective ratio as the old 4th and a taller gear.

right? or does it not work that way?

 

[jroc07gt]

there could be a possibility that anything over 3.37s might hurt it in the 1/4. we have no idea yet what these cars trap so we dont know if swapping gears will put you into 5th right at the end. its gonna be hard to say til we actually start seeing them at the track.

 

[jroc07gt]

Graph of the T3650 vs. MT82, both with 3.31 gears and 27" tire.
4th gear in the MT82 is exactly equivalent to 3rd in the T3650, and 5th in the MT82 is essentially equal to 4th in the T3650.
The steepness of the lines indicates the torque multiplication.

im pretty sure they will come with atleast a 28" tall tire and maybe even 3.55s

 

[jroc07gt]

just found this


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...ibnUCg&usg=AFQjCNH0eK53RP716CHd4oYyChTZUlInMA

 

[Gene K]

Not liking the 1:1 5th gear at all. Makes you wonder why they chose that trans... the engine probably doesn't make chit for torque.

It has 100%+ VE from 3750 rpm to 6500 rpm peaking at 110%+. In otherwords it has what may be one of the widest torquebands of any production engine. Essentially its just a little short of a NASCAR Cup engine in efficiency (They are around 120% unrestricted) It out powers the 4.6L 3V from idle. Thats to large extent because of the independently variable cams allowing them to not only advance/retard the IC but also move the EO in the opposite direction when needed. It can adjust the cams from "lock to lock" at 7000 rpm in less than one engine revolution.The 11.0:1 Compression also helps. The 412/390 rating is on 91 octane but like GM's LS series engines it has adaptive spark (ie it can advance the spark more when it has better fuel). The powerband is 2000-7000 rpm. It starts 1000 rpm earlier and pulls 1000 rpm higher than the 4.6L 3V.

They chose that trans for very good reason. The best performance they could get and avoid gas guzzler tax and get approval from Ford Corporate. Ford worked with Getrag on getting the ratios just right. 2-5 are the same ratios as 1-4 in the classic musclecar 2.43 Low Ford Toploader 4-Speed.

Compared to a TR3650 the MT82 with 3.55 acts like a TR3650 with:
1st - 3.84 Rear Axle
2nd - 4.31 Rear Axle
3rd - 4.54 Rear Axle
4th - 4.69 Rear axle

With a Evan Smith quality driver in mineshaft air the car should run about 115 mph traps (117 mph at actual finish line).
3.73 is going to be about 350 rpm past the rpm limiter (7000 rpm).
3.55 is going to be just under 7000 rpm.
3.31 is going to be a little over 6500 rpm.
All of these in 4th.

Which gear you need will depend on what type of tire you are going to run and how tall it is. Im going to run real street tires so Im going with the 3.31's. If I cant manage to get it to launch on street tires I will go to a shorter 245/45R17 DR on my spare 17's which will raise finish line rpm by close to 400 rpm.

2007 TR3650 3.55 (My old car).
3.55 x 3.38 = 12.00 (Overall Launching Gear)
12.00 x 320 = 3840 lb-ft

2011 MT82 3.31
3.31 x 3.66 = 12.115
12.115 x 390 = 4725 lb-ft

Thats hitting the rear tires harder than 4.30's would on my 2007. Thats going to be hard enough to deal with on Pirellis.

JMHO. That and a buck will buy you a cup.....

 

[28.]

I likes this one..
3.55 - 6-speed (0.65)
---
60mph - 1723
70mph - 2010
80mph - 2297

2297 RPMs at 80 is cruisin...

 

[2011CS]

there could be a possibility that anything over 3.37s might hurt it in the 1/4. we have no idea yet what these cars trap so we dont know if swapping gears will put you into 5th right at the end. its gonna be hard to say til we actually start seeing them at the track.

Um aren't the guys running in the 10's right now all running 4:56's?

 

[SirKnightTG]

I thought Evo is running 3.73?

 

[hawkeye18]

Yeah, JPC is running 4.56s; Evo is running 3.73s. It seems to not matter too much.