advertised 1000 horsepower capable shortblocks

[v8venomgt]

i read through the thread thats similarly titled to mine, but it spawned a few questions that came to mind. from my impression these "advertised" blocks are crank horsepower related am i right? that being said, what is the conservative rwhp rwtq ceiling on these 1000 horsepower blocks, generally speaking? 700 rwtq? 850 rwtq?

i know fuel, rpm, power adder, use, etc will all play a role is the case of longevity. for the sake of this thread though id question it to the tailoring of thoughts.

ford racings upcoming 5.3 block, DOB manifold with a ported and pullied TVS, 93 octane only, stock heads and cams/valvesprings. with the stock cams and valvesprings it clearly wont be revved to the moon, and 93 octane can only go so far (how far i have no idea what the ceiling is for a boosted 5.3 on 93 octane?) compression ratio is expected to be 9.1. per the advertising ive seen.

will a 1000 horsepower shortblock be able to survive a leaned on TVS setup thats fueld by 93 octane without pushing it beyond its intended capabilities? or would a custom shortblock with blah blah pistons, rods, rings, and a double keyed crank be the most sensible/logical situation? keep in mind, im not talking about a track whore. just a street car that can hurt some feelings, have some fun at an occasional track day, and be reasonable to maintain.

 

[BruceH]

Someone makes a short block that's been tested to 1000?


Are you shooting for 1000?

 

[JeremyH]

The power adder type, fuel and tune is the biggest variable. Just because someone made 1000rwhp on their setup with xyz build doesn't mean its easy and repeatable on another setup but the term we like to use is capable.

I like 9:1 and moly rings for longevity and safety in a street car, that's what I run and I'm very happy with how it performs. Anything over 550-600hp on street tires is pretty much useless and dangerous for me. With drag radials I will do some full boost hits in the 700 range but that's where I draw the line for what I'm comfortable with. Longevity and reliability are more important to me. I'm very much addicted to a boosted car just not with the need to make more and more power. I would like to see the 800 mark on my car just to see what the build is capable of (stock crank) but the car will rarely every get run there on the street. Its just not practical like some builds make it out to be.

 

[v8venomgt]

Someone makes a short block that's been tested to 1000?


Are you shooting for 1000?

maybe? ive seen shortblocks advertised as 1000 horsepower capeable, there are several examples but heres one http://www.brenspeed.com/b326.html they rate it in the sense of "The B326 will support up to 1000HP" ive just seen that from several vendors over the years. i personally dont have a goal of 1000 horsepower. its way to much of an investment for me, and ill never utilize it. i really, really like the idea of using oem parts, or worked oem parts so to speak.

i know its apples to oranges, but a leaned on tvs mounted to a gt500 setup nets anywhere from 750-850 to the tires depending on combo. if i got to that point, cool. if not, its just a number to me and im not competition minded. just looking for fun using oem parts is the idea. the regular eaton doesnt interest me much personally.

The power adder type, fuel and tune is the biggest variable. Just because someone made 1000rwhp on their setup with xyz build doesn't mean its easy and repeatable on another setup but the term we like to use is capable.

Longevity and reliability are more important to me. I'm very much addicted to a boosted car just not with the need to make more and more power.

i edited out a few of your points, but the above posted, i feel like im like minded to your approach. im not dreaming of 1000 horsepower, i just like the parts ford, DOB, and BPS are offering. i think a combination of the 3 would result in a turnkey, functional, great driving car, effectively showcasing what ford parts can do when worked over some.

my main question i guess in actuality would a worked TVS be a suitable blower for the new frpp offering, or the b326 even? or does that choice of blower require a custom shortblock because it will surpass the abilities of the "1000 horsepower capeable" shortblocks.

 

[drive_55_not]

my main question i guess in actuality would a worked TVS be a suitable blower for the new frpp offering, or the b326 even? or does that choice of blower require a custom shortblock because it will surpass the abilities of the "1000 horsepower capeable" shortblocks.

[FONT=&quot]No, the TVS won't break a properly built short block. While it's a capable blower, you'll never (well, it's highly unlikely) you'd get a 1000 crank HP with it without spraying it.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]JDM 'only' made 8-something with a full on race motor. There's a thread on here somewhere about it.
[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I have the Manley H-beam with ARP bolts, Diamond custom pistons/Total Seal rings, Cobra crank, custom cams and stock heads[/FONT]. I've made 634wrhp on a dynojet on BP 93 pump gas, Yes my tuner though I was an idiot for trying that ... . I had a 2.65" upper with a 10% IW overdrive pulley to hit that number. I've since dropped dropped back to a 3" upper and locked out my cams and made 575rwhp I have been spraying 100 to a 200 shot of Nawz, on pump gas ... Yes My tuner thinks I'm an idiot for doing that also...

As far as the '1000hp" claim that's likely form Manley rating their H-beam rods w/ARP bolts for 750 H.P. at 8500 rpm, so keeping the rpm's to 7000 they'd live at 1000hp.[/FONT]


.

 

[REDS197]

1000 hp on 93 is a stretch. I would not run more than 15-ish psi on 93 octane. The rest sounds capable.

 

[mustang1200]

I have a JDM short block that is "rated" to 1000hp. I never really considered the fact that it might NOT be a RWHP rating. Either way it's been rebuilt with "race" components that will have a higher tolerance to help attain my goal of 1000rwhp. Do I think it's completely impractical and useless on the street, YES. That said I just simply want it for not other reason than I can. It's not a drag car and isn't setup like one. It's just a plain ole street car. I likely won't run around at 1000rwhp, but wouldn't be surprised if I don't run around at 700 to 800rwhp most of the time. I've been at 600rwhp/620rwtq and honestly find it quite boring on the street now. I probably fall into the dyno queen category which I guess I'm ok with.

 

[BruceH]

Remember it's all just a guess and any part can fail at any time, especially with boost.

For your stated plans it should work out just fine. Things to consider if you do buy a race block are the bearings are probably Babbitt overlaid to absorb detonation. That's good if you are racing a motor but once that soft layer is displaced the motor needs to be torn down due to clearance changes. What I'm getting at is if you aren't going to be hard core racing I'd shy away from anything "race". It gives people a false sense of security due to the increased maintenance required and clearances that are race oriented. But that's me, and it's more of a guess.

 

[v8venomgt]

[FONT=&quot]
As far as the '1000hp" claim that's likely form Manley rating their H-beam rods w/ARP bolts for 750 H.P. at 8500 rpm, so keeping the rpm's to 7000 they'd live at 1000hp.[/FONT].

yeah, ill never have any reason to be revving to the moon in a street car. sure, cams/springs may be in the future one day, but nothing super aggressive.

1000 hp on 93 is a stretch. I would not run more than 15-ish psi on 93 octane. The rest sounds capable.

ill need to do some reseach as far as boost in relation to octane. i wonder if researching how much boost the gt500 guys are running on 93 would translate to a 3v on 93? the displacement is comporable, but having 2 less cams, and VCT....im not sure how that plays into the mix?

Remember it's all just a guess and any part can fail at any time, especially with boost.

For your stated plans it should work out just fine. Things to consider if you do buy a race block are the bearings are probably Babbitt overlaid to absorb detonation. That's good if you are racing a motor but once that soft layer is displaced the motor needs to be torn down due to clearance changes. What I'm getting at is if you aren't going to be hard core racing I'd shy away from anything "race". It gives people a false sense of security due to the increased maintenance required and clearances that are race oriented. But that's me, and it's more of a guess.

i figured the tvs and the upcoming 5.3 would survive in harmony. im still curious how far the the 1000 horsepower blocks can be leaned on in the sense of not a hero run but what are its capabilities. i was completely unaware of the babbitt bearings. ive read, and heard that what makes good for a race motor does not translate to a street car, and vice versa. i know i would rather have a slower, less powerful car that i can get years of enjoyment out of rather than a track rat car forced to live on the street that needs to be gone through, and has high upkeep.

 

[BruceH]

A 5.4 wouldn't be the best comparison. A 5.4 has the same bore as a 4.6 with a 4.165"? stroke. The motor you are looking at is an almost square bore and stroke more like the 4.6 is.

If you have access to e85 compression isn't too much of a concern. You can always run two different boost levels for different fuels.

 

[v8venomgt]

A 5.4 wouldn't be the best comparison. A 5.4 has the same bore as a 4.6 with a 4.165"? stroke. The motor you are looking at is an almost square bore and stroke more like the 4.6 is.

If you have access to e85 compression isn't too much of a concern. You can always run two different boost levels for different fuels.

thanks for such a detailed response. i didnt know any of that. in my head for awhile i didnt want to use e85. for a while there were a few stations near by but it wasnt widely available either. i just checked right now (its been a few years) there are a lot of stations near by. i hadnt realized that.

i suppose i may reconsider at some point. i just like the consistency, no hassle of the 93 octane. also, i remember there was a member here a few years ago who had awful black sludging in his fuel pumps and he was strictly on e85 by my memory.

 

[JoshK]

I have been on E85 for four years now. I have yet to see any sludge. The sludge was really the alcohol in the ethanol clearing all the varnish and deposits out of the tank and fuel system. They got caught in the prefilters in that thread. That is a discussion in and of itself though.

 

[v8venomgt]

yikes, i should dig that thread up and read through it again. in all honesty, that was the only horror story ive really seen/read. locally, or otherwise.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Myself and a few friends have been running 19-20psi on 93 for years now.

A TVS on a BOSS block won't even make that much boost, you really have nothing to worry about.

 

[mustangtcs]

Isn't it a fact that having a blower with a pulley that makes 15 psi on a 4.6 will make less boost on a bigger displacement motor due to having to supply more air to fill the cylinders. So you would then have to run the supercharger much harder to make more boost.... And then you have new issues such as higher IAT's and these blowers also have a max rpm that you have to look at.

 

[JeremyH]

Isn't it a fact that having a blower with a pulley that makes 15 psi on a 4.6 will make less boost on a bigger displacement motor due to having to supply more air to fill the cylinders. So you would then have to run the supercharger much harder to make more boost.... And then you have new issues such as higher IAT's and these blowers also have a max rpm that you have to look at.

Boost is a measure of restriction so indeed may register less boost due to larger displacement but make the same or more power since its a more efficient air pump.

 

[mustangtcs]

Boost is a measure of restriction so indeed may register less boost due to larger displacement but make the same or more power since its a more efficient air pump.

Thanks

 

[BruceH]

thanks for such a detailed response. i didnt know any of that. in my head for awhile i didnt want to use e85. for a while there were a few stations near by but it wasnt widely available either. i just checked right now (its been a few years) there are a lot of stations near by. i hadnt realized that.

i suppose i may reconsider at some point. i just like the consistency, no hassle of the 93 octane. also, i remember there was a member here a few years ago who had awful black sludging in his fuel pumps and he was strictly on e85 by my memory.

Something to consider with e85 is that your motor isn't going to detonate at the lowest blend you will find. It's real easy to tune for this. First test the fuel and adjust stoich in the tune accordingly. Tune. Now make another tune with the stoich for e70. Everything is going to work about the same except your o2 sensors will get a workout during closed loop and your wot will be a little rich.

A better solution is to find consistent stations and get fuel from them. The most consistent fuel should come from a blender pump. If you have a few blender pumps around I'd get a tune for e30, e50, and e85.

 

[v8venomgt]

Something to consider with e85 is that your motor isn't going to detonate at the lowest blend you will find. It's real easy to tune for this. First test the fuel and adjust stoich in the tune accordingly. Tune. Now make another tune with the stoich for e70. Everything is going to work about the same except your o2 sensors will get a workout during closed loop and your wot will be a little rich.

A better solution is to find consistent stations and get fuel from them. The most consistent fuel should come from a blender pump. If you have a few blender pumps around I'd get a tune for e30, e50, and e85.

I've never heard the term "blender pump" what is that, and how do I go about finding one? Have certain brands of e85 (be it shell, bp, etc) proven the be regularly most consistent?/or is it more of a shop maintenance thing?

 

[stkjock]

blender pumps allow you to select how much of a % the pump puts out. not very common