Anyone running racing fuel in their blower 3V?

[eighty6gt]

I might switch this summer now that I have a daily driver.

I don't want a bunch of extra power, but I think I could stop taking out timing when the IAT's go up, and I also can run a few extra degrees in general.

I was thinking of going with something like this:

Evo 10 - Sunoco Race Fuels

 

[RED09GT]

I've been considering this as well since our Canadian premium isn't as knock resistant as what you find south of the border.
I've talked to a few others locally and we have talked about brining in a dozen barrels of E98 and doing our own homebrews but it seems like a lot of effort.

I haven't got to the stage of actually phoning suppliers as of yet.

 

[Laga]

About 18 months ago, I tried 100 octane racing fuel along with a tune from Lito on my 05 with an E-Force supercharger. The car may have performed better, but it really wasn't noticeable. Then, I converted over to E85 right before the restrictions on covid hit. So I haven't had a true test of gains on the dyno or track, the ol` butt dyno has perceived a definite increase. I have a station less than a mile away that sells E85, so getting it is not a problem. And even with the 25% reduction in milage, the pump price is generally 30% less. So I come out slightly ahead.

BTW, after doing EXTENSIVE research, 90% of the horror stories you hear about ethanol are simply not true. They are exagerations, urban myths, and misinformation.
Two examples, 1. Every car site and forum and mechanic will tell you that ethanol will absorb water from the air. While this is true for pure ethanol, once blended with gasoline (E10) it does not. E85 may, because of the higher content, but it would be minimal.
2. Ethanol destroys rubber. True, BUT, rubber has not been used for decades in the fuel systems of vehicles for decades, it's all synthetic. So it is a moot point. If you have a carbureted car, do not use E10. It wasn't designed for it. But even then, the hydrocarbon blend ( Toluene, Benzene, Xylene, and ethyl-benzene ) they use in ethanol-free gasoline is much harsher than the effects of ethanol. Eventually the synthetic rubber will break down. The chemist I spoke to specializes in corrosion prevention of commercial/industrial water systems.

 

[eighty6gt]

Yeah - I asked Lito if he thought my injectors and fuel pump could support E85.

E85 is $17.80 a gallon plus tax here.
100 octane race gas is $33.60 a gallon.

16 gallon tank, last about 3 weeks maybe, $537.00 to fill up.

 

[Laga]

E85 is $17.80 a gallon plus tax here.
100 octane race gas is $33.60 a gallon.

Where are you? E85 is $1.95 while premium 93 is $2.95 by me.

 

[Pentalab]

I've been considering this as well since our Canadian premium isn't as knock resistant as what you find south of the border.
I've talked to a few others locally and we have talked about brining in a dozen barrels of E98 and doing our own homebrews but it seems like a lot of effort.

I haven't got to the stage of actually phoning suppliers as of yet.

Here in BC, we have chevron 94....and it contains no ethanol. The chevron 87-89-91 up until 2 summer's ago, also did not contain ethanol. 87-91 now does....'may contain up to 10% ethanol.

All the hot rodders buy chevron 94. I only have 5.8 psi boost, so not a big issue..and summer wx does not get blazing hot on vancouver island. After the 7 bar upper grille went on my 2010, it eliminated 2 x 90 bends into the 'snorkel' that feeds the oem airbox. The oem 2010 upper grille blocks off 80% of the air, dumb design. Now it just straight in. Boost went up .5 psi to just over 6 psi, when on the hwy. Iat is a non issue. With that little boost, the timing can be cranked up a fair amount.

But the local roads are piss poor. Hwys are fine.

 

[RED09GT]

Chevron 94 is shit for power adder engines, I've tried it from several stations in the interior and the lower mainland and it always shows some knock sensor activity on data logs. Shell's 91 does much better, it often adds timing on my datalogs but you get the odd bad batch. This is quite well known in the tuner community around here.
Lito even mentioned it not performing well when we were doing datalogging with the stock motor and just 8 lbs of boost. Anything more than 14 degrees of timing and it would knock. Switched to Shell and it tolerated 16 degrees pretty consistently.

 

[Laga]

The problem with today’s pump gas is that it is a blend of many leftover compounds from other products. It’s constantly changing. Like the old saying from the meat packing companies, “They use everything from the pig but the squeal.” Nothing goes to waste. This does not cause problems with the average DD, but once you start adding power it does.

 

[Pentalab]

Yeah - I asked Lito if he thought my injectors and fuel pump could support E85.

E85 is $17.80 a gallon plus tax here.
100 octane race gas is $33.60 a gallon.

16 gallon tank, last about 3 weeks maybe, $537.00 to fill up.

Years ago, when I was at a small airport for light aircraft, like cessna's, they had 2 x grades of aviation fuel, 80 octane..and 100 octane, pick one. I heard stories back in the 80's abt folks using 100 octane ..'AV gas' in their cars. Story I got was av gas was lead free. Dunno what the price is, nor whether it can be used in cars.

 

[Pentalab]

Chevron 94 is shit for power adder engines, I've tried it from several stations in the interior and the lower mainland and it always shows some knock sensor activity on data logs. Shell's 91 does much better, it often adds timing on my datalogs but you get the odd bad batch. This is quite well known in the tuner community around here.
Lito even mentioned it not performing well when we were doing datalogging with the stock motor and just 8 lbs of boost. Anything more than 14 degrees of timing and it would knock. Switched to Shell and it tolerated 16 degrees pretty consistently.

Stock Roush tune with a M90 puts the timing at 29 degs (5 psi). I have a VMP tune in there now. I will check the timing, I the think last time I checked it was 24-25 degs at wot.

 

[RED09GT]

Stock Roush tune with a M90 puts the timing at 29 degs (5 psi). I have a VMP tune in there now. I will check the timing, I the think last time I checked it was 24-25 degs at wot.

Is the torque management software still active in the Roush tune?

Almost all data I can find for 3V turbos have them in the same timing window for pump gas and I definitely trust my tuner. Car made 488hp/441lb-ft stopping pulls at 6K to preserve the stock rods, oil pump gears, etc...

For fun, I talked to my buddy who runs a dyno shop here and he says that this year shell's 91 has went to shit and the chevron is back to being decent. Probably explains why my motor popped
But in better news, Lake Country and Kamloops are both getting Co-Op gas bars and both are planning on having an E85 pump!

Van City Audi did a video and found a 40hp difference in favor of the Chevron.

 

[eighty6gt]

I guess there's a great station selling E85 in Calgary for cheap. I can just go get some. If I grab 150 gallons that will last me most of the year, if not all. I'm thinking of sealing up a tank and topping off with nitrogen, I'll put an ordinary electric fuel pump in there with a sock and outlet filter and just fill the car that way.

 

[Pentalab]

Is the torque management software still active in the Roush tune?

No clue what's in the Roush tune..it's been long gone. VMP did tell me though, that in 2009, Roush shut off the knock sensors ! I added the twin 62mm TB, LT's, catted H, etc, then had justin at vmp base the tune around chevron 94. With no ethanol in the chev 94, the afr doesn't lean out as much. Typ with 10% ethanol added, the afr will lean out a tiny bit, like .3 to .5 The difference in tq is night and day, pulls like a mofo...it's all I can handle on the street at my age.

 

[Pentalab]

I guess there's a great station selling E85 in Calgary for cheap. I can just go get some. If I grab 150 gallons that will last me most of the year, if not all. I'm thinking of sealing up a tank and topping off with nitrogen, I'll put an ordinary electric fuel pump in there with a sock and outlet filter and just fill the car that way.

With the blower on, what is the afr when using E85 ?? My afr gauge only goes as low as 10:1
I drive 110 miles north of me to my daughters place, and I have to put enough fuel in to get me over the hill, then refuel 40 miles north of me, then again on the way back, then again 2 days later. Mileage sucks....so can't see any advantage to E85, with 30% less fuel economy...and not available where I drive. As is, I have to know where every chevron station is, and what hrs they are open...pita.

What might be another option is water + meth, cheap, and does the job.

 

[eighty6gt]

I don't use my car that way, it is just for bagging around town, if I do a round trip to calgary where the fuel is, I will have a cell in the trunk and can make it without stopping, fuel while there, go home with room to spare.

I do not believe in water meth or killer chillers or other unreasonable bull shit!

My daily is a 2005 6.0 regular cab Silverado that I'll probably tune on husky 94.

 

[07 Boss]

In the town where I work, Boulder City/Lake Mead, we have a large boating community and have 100 octane at the pumps in a lot of gas stations, $7.99/gal. Now we're not supposed to put it in our cars but nobody says anything. But I only use it when I go to the track for extra protection and I leave ignition timing alone.

 

[Juice]

In the town where I work, Boulder City/Lake Mead, we have a large boating community and have 100 octane at the pumps in a lot of gas stations, $7.99/gal. Now we're not supposed to put it in our cars but nobody says anything. But I only use it when I go to the track for extra protection and I leave ignition timing alone.

With too high octane, you are giving up power for extra safety. I put race gas in my bike once when I was at Cecil co. Lost .2 et.

As for knock sensors being turned off by Roush, I heard that too. And Im sure they did not tune to the ragged edge either.

 

[Pentalab]

With too high octane, you are giving up power for extra safety. I put race gas in my bike once when I was at Cecil co. Lost .2 et.

As for knock sensors being turned off by Roush, I heard that too. And Im sure they did not tune to the ragged edge either.

Why would u lose .2 et when using 100 octane in a motor bike ?
The roush M90 blower setups on the 05-10 cars had 29 degs timing..but only 5 psi. Roush said to use 'premium gas'. The 2009-2010 roush M90 setups came from roush with KS disabled. I made damned sure VMP turned em on, when I got my 94 tune from VMP. 29 degs is nuts, the eng is not making anymore power after 25 degs.

 

[Juice]

Not enough compression to take advantage of the high octane.
Run what is specified for best power for a given engine combo and tune. Lowest octane that does not cause knock will make the most power.

 

[07 Boss]

With too high octane, you are giving up power for extra safety. I put race gas in my bike once when I was at Cecil co. Lost .2 et.

As for knock sensors being turned off by Roush, I heard that too. And Im sure they did not tune to the ragged edge either.

Well I don't think its too high and I have never seen a loss in ET. It is just for security/peace of mind. When we had my car tuned we did back timing off a couple of degrees anyways because I thought she was too close to the edge (stock bottom end). She made 506 whp and we tuned it down to 485. But I do understand the concept of the right octane in regards to compression and performance but I just don't think the few points between premium and 100 octane is that big of a factor.