Good Fuel return system for boosted 05 Mustang GT

[Goran46]

So i am about to upgrade a few engine parts on my 3v. I currently only have a Roush supercharger on it. The plan is to go with cams, probably Detroit rockers. A smaller supercharger pulley, a full on exhaust with race cats and maybe valve springs.

Now I am thinking about upgrading the fuel system since it’s a “few years“ old and was never designed for that stress level. I want to push it to maximum 500 horses. Maybe a little under that 470-480ish. I still have stock internals.

So since there are fuel return systems and you only gain benefits out of it. I was wondering if anybody out there knows a good Kit with fuel pump, fuel rails etc. I don’t think that 2 fuel pumps are necessary but I would install it if somebody knows why it would be a good idea. Do I need 2 pumps for a return system?

Street use only. I will not go to the track for now. But I live in Germany so I will go full speed if I have a free Autobahn.

 

[AHaze]

What benefits are you expecting out of a return system at that power level? The stock setup has no issues feeding 500 HP with just pump and wiring upgrades.

 

[Goran46]

What benefits are you expecting out of a return system at that power level? The stock setup has no issues feeding 500 HP with just pump and wiring upgrades.

So what are the main upgrades if looking at the fuel system. what upgrade would you recommend? At the beginning I thought about injectors, fuel rail and a gt500 pump.

As I am reading about the benefits of a return system I am thinking about installing one. Consistent pressure and fuel temperature are things that I would like to have.

I want to upgrade the whole fuel system so I can sleep better when beating it the night before.

I mainly want to a better running engine. And one that will last at least for some beatings. So if I’m upgrading some parts why not take other part upgrades in consideration (from injectors to return system).

 

[DieHarder]

Check out this FPDM wiring upgrade. Uses a walbro 405 or similar. Relatively inexpensive. Supports up to 600hp. I'm supercharged and never any issues.

https://www.departmentofboost.com//wp-content/uploads/2019/03/S_H_Fuel_Pump_Wiring_Upgrade_Instalation_Instructions.pdf

 

[Pentalab]

A dual GT500 pump + a dual Bap will handle anything you can throw at it....provided you have at least 8 ga wire from the battery terminal to the trunk. A dual FT500 pump + dual BAP will suck 40 amps at 6 krpm.

Dunno how long a 500rwhp stock, oem eng will last. The oem rods are pretzel sticks...that's the weak point.

 

[Laga]

I’m over 500RWHP with E85 and 11# boost. I use a single Walbro 400L with the wiring upgrade, BAP, and a larger -8AN fuel line. The last datalog showed no problems with fuel delivery.

 

[AHaze]

So what are the main upgrades if looking at the fuel system. what upgrade would you recommend? At the beginning I thought about injectors, fuel rail and a gt500 pump.

As I am reading about the benefits of a return system I am thinking about installing one. Consistent pressure and fuel temperature are things that I would like to have.

I want to upgrade the whole fuel system so I can sleep better when beating it the night before.

I mainly want to a better running engine. And one that will last at least for some beatings. So if I’m upgrading some parts why not take other part upgrades in consideration (from injectors to return system).

The benefits you mention are fixing non-issues on a 500 HP street car. Will a return system deliver lower fuel temps? Sure, probably but fuel temps aren't causing issues in that situation.
As Pentalab mentioned, if you're talking RWHP and stock bottom end here, you're playing with fire. Take the money you were going to spend on the fancy fuel system and get some good rods and pistons.
I've put over 10000 km on my car at around 450 RWHP (based on trap speed) and have had zero fuel related issues with just a single 450 lph Walbro and 39 lb/hr injectors. I actually have everything to do the wiring upgrade on a shelf but FPDC has been a non-issue with this setup. I would suggest at least 42 lb/hr injectors as the 39s are pushed to their limit at this power level.

 

[Goran46]

So this is the new list. Could this work well? And would I need a bap if I have a dual gt500 pump kit?

- 42 lb injectors
- GT500 Dual fuel pump kit
- Kenne & Bell Booster

Would this be too much:
- Fuel rails
- bigger fuel lines

I even think now that the bap is too much. What do y'all think?

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

When swapping injectors you need to get with your tuner, not all tuners work with every injector.

 

[AHaze]

So this is the new list. Could this work well? And would I need a bap if I have a dual gt500 pump kit?

- 42 lb injectors
- GT500 Dual fuel pump kit
- Kenne & Bell Booster

Would this be too much:
- Fuel rails
- bigger fuel lines

I even think now that the bap is too much. What do y'all think?

A stock GT500 has 500 HP and I'd bet Ford designed a pretty good safety margin into the fuel system. Those pumps should have no issue feeding any stock bottom end 4.6 3V without a BAP. You can always add it later if you discover FPDC is creeping past 90% during tuning. Bigger rails and lines are overkill at that power level as well.
I'm personally not a fan of the fuel pump voltage boosters. Just one more electronic doo-dad I have to worry about failing. I know they don't fail often but the consequences of it happening could be catastrophic.

 

[Midlife Crises]

I agree with these guys. The GT 500 Dual Pump setup from Ford Performance will handle 500 WH with ease. No need for a BAP but a wire size upgrade is a very good idea. Also, be very carful selecting camshafts to run with your blower. PD blowers love to make tons of torque down low and through the upper midrange. Bumpy cams tend to focus engine efficiency toward the upper end of the RPM range.

 

[GlassTop09]

I'm personally not a fan of the fuel pump voltage boosters. Just one more electronic doo-dad I have to worry about failing. I know they don't fail often but the consequences of it happening could be catastrophic.

+1............an 8 awg Wire Mod kit along w\ using the highest CCA rated\ high reserve 96R battery to offload the alternator will easily spin up a single Walbro 525 LPH "Hellcat" FP w\o using a BAP to max output up to 100 psi to support around 600-700 HP thru a single FPDM (JeremyH has a video on this.......pump pulled a max of 24A at full load which is easily under the overload rating of a stock FPDM--JeremyH tested these to a max of 32A-35A before FPDM goes into FP overload protection mode--FPDM shuts the FP completely off). 15' of 8 awg multi-stranded auto grade copper wire (what JeremyH uses w\ his 8 awg Wire Mod kit) can easily pass 50A-75A across it at 13.5v std for Ford returnless FP operations w\o issue thus no BAP is necessary.

The main reason why I installed 1 of these............JeremyH also states that these FP wire mods are good for an OEM stock FP returnless system to reduce the operational FP duty cycle & lower FP operating temps to stabilize\improve fuel delivery.........

Yes, 8 awg wire is overkill.......but you only need to install it 1 time & cover anything you want to do fuel delivery-wise afterwards.

 

[Goran46]

So i see a lot of DEATSCHWERKS 42 lbs injectors. They are around 450-500 bucks. Does anyone know any good injectors?

 

[Goran46]

+1............an 8 awg Wire Mod kit along w\ using the highest CCA rated\ high reserve 96R battery to offload the alternator will easily spin up a single Walbro 525 LPH "Hellcat" FP w\o using a BAP to max output up to 100 psi to support around 600-700 HP thru a single FPDM (JeremyH has a video on this.......pump pulled a max of 24A at full load which is easily under the overload rating of a stock FPDM--JeremyH tested these to a max of 32A-35A before FPDM goes into FP overload protection mode--FPDM shuts the FP completely off). 15' of 8 awg multi-stranded auto grade copper wire (what JeremyH uses w\ his 8 awg Wire Mod kit) can easily pass 50A-75A across it at 13.5v std for Ford returnless FP operations w\o issue thus no BAP is necessary.

The main reason why I installed 1 of these............JeremyH also states that these FP wire mods are good for an OEM stock FP returnless system to reduce the operational FP duty cycle & lower FP operating temps to stabilize\improve fuel delivery.........

Yes, 8 awg wire is overkill.......but you only need to install it 1 time & cover anything you want to do fuel delivery-wise afterwards.

I thought about Detroit rockers. What do you think? I like the chop and I read that they are good to drive at lower speed. And compared to ford Performance do have a little better performance. A lot people go with does too so I thought they would be a good choice.

 

[Laga]

The DR cams work great with boost.
The tune that BS supplies sucks. I had to let the car idle for over 10 minutes to warmup before I could move it without it dying.
Get it tuned by Lito.
BS tune,

Lito tune,

 

[GlassTop09]

I thought about Detroit rockers. What do you think? I like the chop and I read that they are good to drive at lower speed. And compared to ford Performance do have a little better performance. A lot people go with does too so I thought they would be a good choice.

IMHO the best of the off-the-shelf, lopey, full-VCT compliant NSR cams for all around performance are the Brenspeed Detroit Rocker NA cams.
For the same criteria but provide the best chopping sound IMHO are the FRPP Hot Rod cams......but to get this good chopping sound the FRPP Hot Rod cams will give up a little idle & low off idle RPM TQ output vs the Detroit Rockers NA cams (from doing comparison modeling myself using the .006" adv dur cam timing IVO, IVC, EVO, EVC, OL data for each set of camshafts for VCT tuning purposes) but I believe this can be tuned around using VCT & TM tuning to pretty much negate this for available HP\TQ output only........no issues for WOT operations.

IMHO, to get the most out of either of these camshafts, you'll need to pair them w\ LTH's (the FRPP Hot Rod cams in particular) at a minimum to optimize the cams large OL timing to optimize the cyl filling\engine breathing\intake charge velocity across the board that these cams will provide. Using these w\ stock exhaust manifolds\shorty headers will not take full advantage of the amount of OL (the exhaust timing pulses from exhaust port to collector & back to exhaust port\exhaust valve during the exhaust stroke are too short thus can cause a fair amount of exhaust back flow into cylinders\intake manifold reducing the amount of fresh A\F charge mix in cyls during the intake stroke before the EVC event occurs.......good for emissions & MPG but not for low RPM TQ output) but even here the Detroit Rockers NA cams are the better choice.

There are better driving, more powerful lopey camshafts out there, but you'll have to use cam phaser limiters & upgrade valve springs to take advantage of them.

Hope this helps.

 

[Juice]

Most ppl recommend way too much fuel pump to be safe and not fuel starve the engine.
Add a return system to too much fuel pump, and you will be raising fuel temp in the tank as the extra fuel makes its way back to the tank.

 

[EBABlacknChrome]

I finally installed all my fuel upgrades this past spring. I have a Saleen blower SBE. LTH. I installed a GT500 dual fuel pump, 47lb injectors and a wire upgrade from Casey at wireeverything.com

 

[Goran46]

Nice man. How much are you pushing?

I finally installed all my fuel upgrades this past spring. I have a Saleen blower SBE. LTH. I installed a GT500 dual fuel pump, 47lb injectors and a wire upgrade from Casey at wireeverything.com