auto-x question

irishpwr46

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i did an auto cross today with the ny porsche club. it was a great day out and there were two other mustangs there with me. traction was a big issue as it was 50*. my biggest problem was understeer. all day i was fighting the car to get it to turn in. i was constantly scrubbing the fronts and having to slow way down to correct it. my current setup is roush stage 2 shocks struts and springs, and the roush stage 3 swaybars. riken raptors out back and stock tires on the front. im thinking that the swaybars may be a bit to road course oriented and not really good for the auto-x. what can i do to get the front correct? besides tires of course. also, i am switching over to the koni strt shocks and struts soon
 

JesseW.

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i'm pretty new to autocross, but i found my biggest understeer problem was trying to brake in the curve, i started braking earilier, it stopped understeering as bad and i lowered my time by a second.

http://sccawiregrass.org/handling.html and http://sccawiregrass.org/suspension.html this has a good list of things to try for various handling problems. none of my stuff is adjustable yet so i have to do it by changing driving style.
 
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As you stated, matching front and rear tires would go a long way to improving handling balance. Swaybar settings can be a factor, but I think you might be going into the corners too hot.

When I first started auto-xing, I was constantly understeering all over the place. My instructors told me to just slow down before corner entry. Slower corner entry gives you more time to "think" about your driving line, and you'll likely be able to get on the gas sooner for a higher straight away speed. You'd be surprised how a slow and smooth "feeling" run can be your fastest time of the day.

Temperatures up here are around 28-32' F. I have a auto-x on the 28th, if there's no snow on the ground I will be going, wish me luck, I think I am going to need it.
 

mot250

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I'm betting the Rikens are stickier than the stock tires. Having them on the rear for launch traction at a dragstrip would be good but for autocross it wreaks havoc leading to more understeer. Try them on the front next time to swap to overstate if you can't simply get to a matched set of 4 tires.
 

jayel579

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Sounds like you are over driving the car and not giving up soon enough, tough thing to learn driving one of these cars. Seat time with an instructor next to you will help a ton. Show up to one of our NNJR SCCA events at Giants Staduim next season, I can take you for a ride in my car. www.autox4u.com
 

Bad500chris

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Might consider looking into a Griggs racing torque arm. You can do the TA with all the other suspension you have. This greatly helps the weight transfer.

P7110965.jpg
 

JesseW.

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Might consider looking into a Griggs racing torque arm. You can do the TA with all the other suspension you have. This greatly helps the weight transfer.


That might kill him in classing.... from what i read in the rulebook (scca solo) even in SM you aren't suppose to have suspension mounting points different from stock. that part would move him into a Prepared class.

"16.1
E. Suspension components are unrestricted as long as they use the
original attachment points. For the purposes of this rule, “suspen​
sion” is defi ned as any item that is designed to move when a wheel
is de
fl ected vertically. This includes shocks and struts, control arms,
steering knuckles, uprights, etc., but not tie rods, steering racks, and
subframes. In addition, shock absorber/strut upper mounts are to be

considered suspension components.





if he doesn't care about classing, go for it​



 
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Sam Strano

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i did an auto cross today with the ny porsche club. it was a great day out and there were two other mustangs there with me. traction was a big issue as it was 50*. my biggest problem was understeer. all day i was fighting the car to get it to turn in. i was constantly scrubbing the fronts and having to slow way down to correct it. my current setup is roush stage 2 shocks struts and springs, and the roush stage 3 swaybars. riken raptors out back and stock tires on the front. im thinking that the swaybars may be a bit to road course oriented and not really good for the auto-x. what can i do to get the front correct? besides tires of course. also, i am switching over to the koni strt shocks and struts soon

Understeer is the most common issue with new autocrossers and no matter how the car is setup, most people--even veterans, will want to overdrive the car into corners.

You have a swaybar in front that I think is too stiff (it's solid as I recall) and uses a short endlink position as well. I use a 35mm hollow and the softest hole makes for a longer lever arm. So my front bar can be a little softer to a touch stiffer to give you flexibility in tuning. And fwiw, my rear bar is also 3 way adjustable.

You are likely lacking negative camber which would help the car turn. You are on a mis-matched set of tires too which isn't likely to help--and someone said it before, the rears might be stickier than the fronts as well.

In short there are many things that would help, both with the car and the driving. I sell parts, and I teach autocrossing too. I don't sell parts with the idea that they will fix every ill, they can't fix hair-on-fire driving.... but on the the other hand, a car that behaves better is easier to drive and makes people less prone to trying to force the car to do certain things.

Frankly, I'd have to say you want to start not with Koni's (which is in itself odd for me to say) but with a different set of swaybars, and possibly a set of Steeda HD mounts for the front. You have decent, if not great dampers already and if you were to spend money on a shock change, I'd have to say that the Koni move would be better with Sports or even a set of Tokico D-specs to give you some tuning options that your current stuff, or STR.T's don't offer.

And finally. No on the torque arm. It will not help you, and in fact it adds a lot of weight to the car, and a 3-link works great. In fact I have a Camaro and if I could swap it to a 3-link, I would in a NY Minute. Besides none of your issues are to do with what a torque arm does anyway.
 

irishpwr46

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great info guys thank you. i am changing the dampers because they are leaking oil, and i got the konis used at a decent price. ill definitely be hitting up giants stadium next year. this was only my second time out, so i am very new to it. fwiw, i was beating a guy with his saleen. racecraft on every corner and a watts link to boot. he was having traction issues all day as well. that and he had about 150 more hp than me which made for a few issues.

now as for a start. i definitely want to pick up a good set of tires. i want something i can drive to the track though, so no r comps or anything crazy like that. whats a good tire to start with and learn on?

as of right now, tirerack has a good deal on dunlop direzzas at 132 a tire (stock size). would they be worth it? also, do i want a wider/ taller tire or is the stock size good?
 
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Germeezy3

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great info guys thank you. i am changing the dampers because they are leaking oil, and i got the konis used at a decent price. ill definitely be hitting up giants stadium next year. this was only my second time out, so i am very new to it. fwiw, i was beating a guy with his saleen. racecraft on every corner and a watts link to boot. he was having traction issues all day as well. that and he had about 150 more hp than me which made for a few issues.

now as for a start. i definitely want to pick up a good set of tires. i want something i can drive to the track though, so no r comps or anything crazy like that. whats a good tire to start with and learn on?

as of right now, tirerack has a good deal on dunlop direzzas at 132 a tire (stock size). would they be worth it? also, do i want a wider/ taller tire or is the stock size good?

DZ101 StarSpecs for 132 a tire?
 

Rapid

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Understeer is the most common issue with new autocrossers and no matter how the car is setup, most people--even veterans, will want to overdrive the car into corners.

You have a swaybar in front that I think is too stiff (it's solid as I recall) and uses a short endlink position as well. I use a 35mm hollow and the softest hole makes for a longer lever arm. So my front bar can be a little softer to a touch stiffer to give you flexibility in tuning. And fwiw, my rear bar is also 3 way adjustable.

You are likely lacking negative camber which would help the car turn. You are on a mis-matched set of tires too which isn't likely to help--and someone said it before, the rears might be stickier than the fronts as well.

In short there are many things that would help, both with the car and the driving. I sell parts, and I teach autocrossing too. I don't sell parts with the idea that they will fix every ill, they can't fix hair-on-fire driving.... but on the the other hand, a car that behaves better is easier to drive and makes people less prone to trying to force the car to do certain things.

Frankly, I'd have to say you want to start not with Koni's (which is in itself odd for me to say) but with a different set of swaybars, and possibly a set of Steeda HD mounts for the front. You have decent, if not great dampers already and if you were to spend money on a shock change, I'd have to say that the Koni move would be better with Sports or even a set of Tokico D-specs to give you some tuning options that your current stuff, or STR.T's don't offer.

And finally. No on the torque arm. It will not help you, and in fact it adds a lot of weight to the car, and a 3-link works great. In fact I have a Camaro and if I could swap it to a 3-link, I would in a NY Minute. Besides none of your issues are to do with what a torque arm does anyway.

Can you change the rear bar in F Stock?
 

JesseW.

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my nitto's are 300 treadwear and i definately need softer.... i'm leaning toward a set of track wheels and tires when i can afford them but i need new rear street tires as of right now. i'd learn on what you got then find the biggest tires you can stuff under it in a better treadwear. what class do you plan on running in, or do you even care about classing? (i know a lot of people here dont and only go just to have fun and see if they can beat there friends)
 

irishpwr46

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my entire setup of mods.
Roush stage 2 dampers and springs.
Roush stage 3 front and rear sways.
BBR billet lower control arms.
Spohn solid panhard bar.
BMR panhard bar brace.
UMI strut tower brace.
JLT CAI.
BBR Race Tune.
Steeda CMDPs.
Pypes O/R H.
Ford Racing Stingers.
Roush short throw shifter.

Waiting to install.
Steeda torque box braces
Roush extreme exhaust.
Koni STR-T's

WTB
Strano front and rear adjustable sways
Dedicated tires for the stock rims and another set of wheels and tires.
Steeda HD strut mounts.
Strano competition endlinks
adjustable panhard bar.


i am not going to be getting too competitive with it. especially since im trying to save for a wedding. im going to be doing it mostly for fun, but i would like to get some seat time with a proper instructor so i can learn the limits of the car and actually get the best performance out of it that i can. that and have some fun on the freeway ramps
 

RedMosesSC

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. fwiw, i was beating a guy with his saleen. racecraft on every corner and a watts link to boot. he was having traction issues all day as well. that and he had about 150 more hp than me which made for a few issues.

Damn you IRISH!!!! :chainsaw:
 

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