best 18" tire for hpde?

[Sky Render]

I'm kind of interested in using a single tire for both street and autocross use, with a goal of getting ~20k miles (around 3 years) out of the tires. My reason is that I have less time for AutoX than I used to right now and might be moving into a smaller place with less room for storing separate wheels and tires. I understand that I wouldn't be competitive doing this, but I'm OK with that.

I've been leaning towards the new G2 Nitto '555s in a 295 width for this.

 

[fast Ed]

RE-11 is likely being phased out, it's one of the older ones in that category now. I had a set of 285/35R19 RE-11 on my 07 on 10" wheels, as kcbrown said they are a good compromise between a streetable tire and something that will stand up to track use and offer good grip. I just picked up a set in 245/45R16 to go on the old multi-piece 8" wheels I have for the SVO.

 

[mrfatride]

I'm kind of interested in using a single tire for both street and autocross use, with a goal of getting ~20k miles (around 3 years) out of the tires. My reason is that I have less time for AutoX than I used to right now and might be moving into a smaller place with less room for storing separate wheels and tires. I understand that I wouldn't be competitive doing this, but I'm OK with that.

I've been leaning towards the new G2 Nitto '555s in a 295 width for this.

i keep eyeing a set of SVE-R wheels for just using for daily use in the summer and those are the tires i would most likely run if it did that.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Just recently got myself back in the mustang game and everyone was high on running 18s. Seems that the tire market has left us out on this one now and there does not appear to be the selection there once was. im running 18x10 wheels so would like something that would fit proper on these wheels. Do not require the fastest tire as i am mainly just trying to "grind out" laps this coming 2018 season. thanks again!

You are right - a lot of the good 18" sizes in heights that fit an S197 and widths that work on 18x10" wheels have dried up. We are selling more 19" wheels now (esp 19x11) for this car and usually folks go with a 305/30/19, of which there are LOTS of options.

This is an S197 on coilovers/camber plates with 19x11" wheels and a 305/30/19 Hankook RS-4. These tires are fast and wear well, and the cost is great. They also make the rare S197-friendly 285/35/18 in this model. That's an ideal size for an 18x10" wheel...

Bridgestone RE-71R are awesome tires that are basically R-comps with treads. They're great for autoX (that's what I use them for), but they might wear out too fast for HPDE. For your wheel, you'd run the 275/35R18. (That 275 is very wide for its size.)

The BFG Rival S are another excellent choice. I think they're available in a 285.

There aren't useful "S197 sizes" in those two models (RE-71R and Rival-S) - the 285/30/18 is way too short.

A 275/35/18 is still... pretty dang short, too. Which sucks because these are two really good tire models/compounds! BFG used to make a Rival in 295/35/18 and we built a lot of cars around that tire, but they stopped making it. I've begged the top folks at Michelin in the USA, sat with hours with them in our lobby talking tires, but we got nowhere. I am not quitting... that's a great tire size.

I've had multiple people tell me that the RE-71r is an awesome tire but will not last, and even that it gets a bit greasy when very hot. But I do not speak from experience.

That is accurate. An RE-71R Bridgestone is a delicate race tire with a nominal "200" rating that is laughable. It is easily overheated on track, and once they get hot they lose grip fast. They also wear very quickly. Don't daily drive on these or you are burning your money - treat them right and they can make for fast lap times tho.

That's a brand new, full tread 275/35/18 RE-71R on an 18x9.5" wheel on a Focs RS after two track sessions. A total of 12 hot laps did that. This car had -4deg of camber and good coilovers, too. "Delicate"

I'm quite partial to the Bridgestone RE-11 myself. I do speak from experience when I say that the RE-11 does last and, better, seems to be at its best when very hot, based on my experience at Sonoma Raceway in 95 degree weather. Thus far I have never managed to get them "greasy" even at Thunderhill in August. For HPDE, I think you'll find the RE-11 to be an excellent tire.

Agreed, it is a longer lasting tire but it being on close-out means it is being phased out. Bridgestone gave us a set of these back in 2011 to test...

We ran the 275/40/18 RE-11 on an 18x10" wheel on our S197, in both autocross and track events - they worked well enough, and lasted a long time. Great daily driver tire, too. But they are not anywhere near as fast as an RE-71R, and they are going away.

An interesting choice: sacrificing a bit of absolute grip for longevity. ... Might be a good choice for a mix street/race tire, also.

Yep, that is one of the few "dual purpose" tires that really can do both fairly well. Look also at the Hankook RS-4, Michelin PSS or P4S, Direzza ZII Star Spec, the old Falken RT-615K, and the other "second tier" 200 TW tires from 3-4 years ago for more of the same.

None of these are perfect track tires and all can still suffer from suspension problems, abuse, and over heating like any other tire. They just put up with abuse a little better than the softer/faster variants. This little 235mm MPSS took a beating on a heavy Focus RS and died a valiant death after about 10K street miles and 8 track days. It was too small for the car's weight, which hurt its lifespan. #GoWide when giant chunks started flying off we pulled them...

For HPDE, feel free to throw any need to run OE-diameter tires out the window. The only caveat is to avoid going so short that you find yourself running out of revs and needing to make upshifts at inconvenient times/places.
Norm

Agreed. Don't over-shorten the tire, but don't get hung up on matching the OEM tire height. If you do you won't have almost any good tires to choose from! And don't forget - changing final drive ratio in an S197's 8.8" axle is painfully easy and inexpensive, compared to other car models.

Cheers,

 

[mrfatride]

Thanks for the input Terry!

 

[46addict]

I've been leaning towards the new G2 Nitto '555s in a 295 width for this.

From a performance view, I've read bad reviews on the G2 Nittos. Some say they are worse than the first gen 555. But I got over 30k miles out of a set of first gen 555s on mostly conservative driving with spirited mountain drives and 2 track days mixed in. There was still tread remaining when the car was totaled.

With that said I think you can do better than Nittos even if longevity is a concern. I would listen to Vorshlag.

 

[Sky Render]

I've read positive reviews on the new '555s. Any links to these negative ones?

 

[46addict]

In these threads they were being put up against Michelin PSS, BFG R1, and NT05 so I guess that isn't a fair comparison. I don't know the price points for those tires but I imagine they cost more than G2s or they wear faster. So it boils down to how much you're willing to pay.

http://www.s197forum.com/threads/so-im-tired-of-running-drs.133869/
http://www.s197forum.com/threads/co...tact-how-do-they-hold-up.130826/#post-2368407

 

[Sky Render]

In these threads they were being put up against Michelin PSS, BFG R1, and NT05 so I guess that isn't a fair comparison. I don't know the price points for those tires but I imagine they cost more than G2s or they wear faster. So it boils down to how much you're willing to pay.

http://www.s197forum.com/threads/so-im-tired-of-running-drs.133869/
http://www.s197forum.com/threads/co...tact-how-do-they-hold-up.130826/#post-2368407

I'm not sure how relevant a thread discussing replacements for drag radials is to a corner-carving discussion.

Here's an actual review of the '555 G2s:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/4146/Tested-Nittos-new-555-G2-High-Performance-Tire.aspx

I've run the original '555s as a street tire (and as an autocross tire when I first started in the sport) since 2011 when I purchased the car. I've gotten very good wear out of the original '555s (30k miles with numerous autocrosses), and they did OK for autocross (though they are not in the same league as the RE-71R, for instance).

If the G2s get similar mileage (they should) and do better at autocross (the reviews say they do), then I think they'd be a decent street tire. I am still open to suggestions on which other dual-use tires to look at, though. Only requirements are that they must fit on an 18x10 wheel (so 275-295 width) and be around 27" tall (OEM height).

 

[Norm Peterson]

Only requirements are that they must fit on an 18x10 wheel (so 275-295 width) and be around 27" tall (OEM height).

Is that last requirement absolutely necessary for speeds achievable in 2nd gear at autocross?

FWIW, 265/40-18 isn't all that much shorter than 275/40-18 (only about 0.2" on the radius) and in some tire makes/models (*cough* MPSS *cough*) may even have a wider tread than the 275. It will work on 10", with 10.5" being the usual listed max.


Norm

 

[Sky Render]

Is that last requirement absolutely necessary for speeds achievable in 2nd gear at autocross?

FWIW, 265/40-18 isn't all that much shorter than 275/40-18 (only about 0.2" on the radius) and in some tire makes/models (*cough* MPSS *cough*) may even have a wider tread than the 275. It will work on 10", with 10.5" being the usual listed max.


Norm

I would want it close, simply because it would be my only set of tires.

The current RE-71Rs are super short, but I only use them for autocross, so the change in final drive is actually useful there.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I would want it close, simply because it would be my only set of tires.

Not sure why that would matter, not even the 2 mph change in speedometer reading @ 80 mph.

There might even be a little benefit in having your car's DD setup closer to its autoX or track setup.


For me, I knew before I'd put a hundred street miles on the 285/35-18's in preparation for track time that I wasn't ever going to go all the way back to 27" tall tires once the 255/45's were worn out. Probably not 26.7" tall tires either, if I could avoid it.


Norm

 

[Pentalab]

I'm not sure how relevant a thread discussing replacements for drag radials is to a corner-carving discussion.

Here's an actual review of the '555 G2s:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/4146/Tested-Nittos-new-555-G2-High-Performance-Tire.aspx

I've run the original '555s as a street tire (and as an autocross tire when I first started in the sport) since 2011 when I purchased the car. I've gotten very good wear out of the original '555s (30k miles with numerous autocrosses), and they did OK for autocross (though they are not in the same league as the RE-71R, for instance).

If the G2s get similar mileage (they should) and do better at autocross (the reviews say they do), then I think they'd be a decent street tire. I am still open to suggestions on which other dual-use tires to look at, though. Only requirements are that they must fit on an 18x10 wheel (so 275-295 width) and be around 27" tall (OEM height).

Excellent article in motoiq. OK, can the new 555-G2's be used on the front if > 265mm is contemplated ? The writeup, and also the info on nitto's website don't mention the use of 275+ G2's being used on the front... only being optimized for the rears. That or I missed something.

There is a total of 5 rain grooves on the G2's..vs just 3 on the NT-555. From what very little feedback I have heard so far, is the G2's are a definite improvement in the rain /wet...and a small improvement in the dry..vs the plane 555. They are are also priced way less than the MPSS.

In the next 2 days I will get price quotes on a pair of 305-35-19's.... since that size is available in both a 555-G2..and also a MPSS.

 

[Sky Render]

That's a good question. I might try emailing Nitto to ask. I'm not using them if I can't run 285s on all 4 corners.

 

[Juice]

As much as I love NT01s, I was expecting more from 555s. After about 10000 miles (plenty of tread left), they totally suck in the wet. They are OK in the dry, and can be used for HPDEs. I was about 5 seconds off pace at WGI with the 555s vs almost worn out (and heat cycled many times) NT01s. I'm not sure what my next tire will be for street use, but it will be 200 treadwear rubber.

I think my Zeon RS3-As (all weather) have more grip than 555's. And the Zeons put the Nittos to shame in the wet. I will probably have the Zeons on hand for the next HPDE for rain tires.

 

[Sky Render]

I've heard the original '555s were bad in the wet, but I never had an issue with them, and I'm on my second set! But then again, I drive like a grandma when the road is wet.

 

[Pentalab]

Only time I had a serious issue with my original 555's in the wet was right after the car was lowered 1" to 1.25" in the rear....(and 1" on the front) . Rear LCA's were no longer parallel to the ground....but higher at axle end. Every time I got on the gas pedal in the wet, it would pull violently to the left. Back end kicked out on me a few times, going around wet left hand corners, just a few blocks from home. The fix of course was the myriad of BMR stuff, esp the LCA re-locate brackets, problem solved.

On a side note, AM no longer carries the NT-555G2 in a 305-35-19, but they do carry it in a MPSS.
I have never tried a MPSS, so this will be a 1st for me, albeit on the rears only. Original NT-555's in a 285-40-18 will be used on the fronts.

 

[Pentalab]

That's a good question. I might try emailing Nitto to ask. I'm not using them if I can't run 285s on all 4 corners.

I just checked my old notes..and I asked them exactly the same question 2 1/2 months ago..twice. They never did get back to me. Unusual, since they have always been fairly quick with email, like 2-3 business days at most.

If that is the case, not being able to use a 275 555-G2, and wider tire on the front really sucks, and they have not done themselves any favors.

 

[Sky Render]

Nitto actually emailed me and said the 265s and wider simply have larger tread blocks for increased traction and are fine to use on the fronts.

 

[fast Ed]

I've heard the original '555s were bad in the wet, but I never had an issue with them, and I'm on my second set! But then again, I drive like a grandma when the road is wet.

My friend that owned the 07 in my avatar before me had 555s on the car for awhile. I drove it at one wet & cool track day, they were terrible ... no traction for turn-in or corner exit.