BMR Sway-Bars, What do YOU want?

[BMR Tech]

I'll keep it short. We have not released sway-bars for the 2011+ Mustangs. We decided to hold-off due to our higher volume parts needing attention for the newer 2011+ models.

We are going to be releasing Front and Rear Sway-Bars soon for 2005-Current S197's.

We have designed a few different styles, and considered a few different mounting styles/locations. For the sake of not wanting our ideas to be ripped off, I do not really want to share them all....but they are all innovations, I promise.

We do not want to produce an axle mounted bar, if all possible. We like axle mounted bars for many applications, and actually built/SOLD them for the S197 back in 2004/2005....but we just think the mounting to the axle is working backwards in technology.

This is the version we ran in 2004.

We are not lacking knowledge here, we are simply wanting to ask you, the customer, what do YOU want for a Sway-Bar set-up?

-Rates? (apparently people are wanting "super-stiff" rear bars?)
-Price Point? (we could make $700+ bars, but, you don't want that, right?)
-Mount Location? (reasons; clearance, ease of install, etc)
-Weight (we will probably do both hollow, F/R)
-Adjustable (how stiff do you want/need?)
-Bushing Mounts (Billet Mounts? Cheaper Steel Mounts?)
-End-Links (Billet Aluminum? Steel?)

Pros/Cons of all the bars available?

The primary reason for this is simple. We definitely realize that we have been slow to market with this portion of the suspension, since the release of the 2011's, and feel it has inconvenienced our customer base drastically, so, tell us what you want. We will compile everything, make a sound decision, and make them available to the market.

Let's talk sway-bars! Heck, bring all the threads about sway-bars over here....compare the current ones, whatever you think or have to say about the bars for 2005-Mustangs, post up.

For those that participate, thank you.

 

[Mustang259]

Read a lot of the info in the other thread that started this conversation, and there was no mention of convertibles. I would be interested in sway bars that conform to convertible requirements, i.e. clearance with the additional bracing etc.
Also, I would prefer sway bar kits that include end links and mounting brackets, not all sway bar sets do, and please consider that future mods will invariably be attempted so the sway bars need to consider all clearance issues.
I hope the product survey works out well.

 

[Sky Render]

Wait, I thought mounting the sway bar to the axle was a terrible thing!

In all seriousness, I like that design. What do the endlinks connect to?

 

[BMR Tech]

Read a lot of the info in the other thread that started this conversation, and there was no mention of convertibles. I would be interested in sway bars that conform to convertible requirements, i.e. clearance with the additional bracing etc.
Also, I would prefer sway bar kits that include end links and mounting brackets, not all sway bar sets do, and please consider that future mods will invariably be attempted so the sway bars need to consider all clearance issues.
I hope the product survey works out well.

Thank you for that feedback, it is very good information. I am fairly certain we will keep the convertible guys in mind this "go-round"

Thanks again!

Wait, I thought mounting the sway bar to the axle was a terrible thing!

In all seriousness, I like that design. What do the endlinks connect to?

It isn't necessarily terrible. It is however, a step backwards in technology. We offer axle mounted bars for various platforms, and, these days we typically prefer to only have "Drag" Anti-Rolls Bars mounted to the axle, as it works wonders for many reasons (except weight of course)

That design I pictured, we released in 2004 and stopped that design in late 2005.

At that time, people did not want to weld things onto their new S197 Mustang. The links mounted to a bracket, that was welded to the chassis, as pictured.

 

[cp85gt]

I read the response you posted in the whiteline thread about needing a more secure attachment for the bar. Could you talk a bit about that? Are you saying more secure end-links or a more solid mount to the chassis like the drag bar you posted about earlier?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Okay, I'll throw in my two cents worth, but I will admittedly state that this is probably NOT the best setup for mass-marketing.

REAR:

Hollow splined bar, rigidly mounted to the frame, in the general neighborhood of the existing stock drop-link brackets. Fabrication/welding required (I think), but that location should clear just about everything.

Driver's side lever-arm: Splined directly onto the bar, billet drop-link down to the outside face of the LCA mount, or tabbed to the rear.

Passenger's side blade: Cup-mounted bearing, splined onto the bar, but perpendicular to the bar's long axis. The blade has a machined pin at the end that runs through the bearing, allowing the blade to twist. Drop link similar to the other side. Now for the fun part... On the bar mount-bracket, add a cable retainer tab, and have the cable itself terminate to a tab on the pin end of the blade. Run that cable to the inside of the car, up by the shifter, and bolt/weld on a lever-style handle that pushes/pulls the cable.

This setup, by adjusting the angle of the one blade, allows in-car adjustment of the bar stiffness, as the angle of the blade relative to the axle end determines the net rate of the entire system. You can use a variety of thicknesses of blade to determine the maximum bar rate, and then de-rate that blade by increasing the angle.

Front setup would be substantially similar, but mounting to the stock chassis mounts, and probably down to the lower control arm (fabbed/welded) rather than the strut, to allow clearance for the wheel lock-to-lock.

Price point on that setup would be astronomical (relatively speaking), but I just thought I'd throw it out there...

Yes, I got the idea by blatantly ripping-off the design used on the Australian V8Supercars!

 

[Sky Render]

That sounds like a pretty sweet setup, Dave, but it probably wouldn't be practical for street cars!

Have you ever seen the Formula D cars that mount the front sway bar above the engine to allow easier adjustments?

 

[OkieSnuffBox]

Front setup would be substantially similar, but mounting to the stock chassis mounts, and probably down to the lower control arm (fabbed/welded) rather than the strut, to allow clearance for the wheel lock-to-lock.

Isn't that less an ideal from a rate standpoint?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Isn't that less an ideal from a rate standpoint?

Yes, and no. It's less than ideal from a motion-ratio standpoint, but you can still get the same net wheel rate by using a higher-rate bar. I just can't think of how to mount the end of the blade to the strut at an angle relative to vehicle centerline and still allow the blade itself to rotate around its own axis for adjustment.

Sky Render: Practical for a street car? No. But for an endurance racer where you will blow through a full fuel load once or twice in a stint, and start on sticker tires and have junk at the end, the in-car adjustment would be quite nice.

Good thinking on the top-mounted bar, by the way! Packaging is always the issue with stuff like this... Do you have any pix you could throw up, or even PM, if we don't want the thread going off-track?

 

[zquez]

Yes, and no. It's less than ideal from a motion-ratio standpoint, but you can still get the same net wheel rate by using a higher-rate bar. I just can't think of how to mount the end of the blade to the strut at an angle relative to vehicle centerline and still allow the blade itself to rotate around its own axis for adjustment.

Sky Render: Practical for a street car? No. But for an endurance racer where you will blow through a full fuel load once or twice in a stint, and start on sticker tires and have junk at the end, the in-car adjustment would be quite nice.

Good thinking on the top-mounted bar, by the way! Packaging is always the issue with stuff like this... Do you have any pix you could throw up, or even PM, if we don't want the thread going off-track?

A top mounted bar would be cool, and quick adjustments would be super nice, but I can't think of a way it could work in a stock config car. The only ones I've ever seen were tube frame SLA cars. Like this one:

You can see the bar barely peaking out from behind the shrouding.

That T-handle pin and slots allow for fast adjustments to the bar.

Heres some from another tube frame mustang.

 

[zquez]

Whatever design you guys come up with for the bars, I would like to see adjustable end links for both to allow for proper corner weighting. This feature is one of the biggest reasons I went Whiteline on the front.

 

[leviathon]

Do I see 2 sway bars mounted in there?? lol

I'll keep it short. We have not released sway-bars for the 2011+ Mustangs. We decided to hold-off due to our higher volume parts needing attention for the newer 2011+ models.

We are going to be releasing Front and Rear Sway-Bars soon for 2005-Current S197's.

We have designed a few different styles, and considered a few different mounting styles/locations. For the sake of not wanting our ideas to be ripped off, I do not really want to share them all....but they are all innovations, I promise.

We do not want to produce an axle mounted bar, if all possible. We like axle mounted bars for many applications, and actually built/SOLD them for the S197 back in 2004/2005....but we just think the mounting to the axle is working backwards in technology.

This is the version we ran in 2004.

We are not lacking knowledge here, we are simply wanting to ask you, the customer, what do YOU want for a Sway-Bar set-up?

-Rates? (apparently people are wanting "super-stiff" rear bars?)
-Price Point? (we could make $700+ bars, but, you don't want that, right?)
-Mount Location? (reasons; clearance, ease of install, etc)
-Weight (we will probably do both hollow, F/R)
-Adjustable (how stiff do you want/need?)
-Bushing Mounts (Billet Mounts? Cheaper Steel Mounts?)
-End-Links (Billet Aluminum? Steel?)

Pros/Cons of all the bars available?

The primary reason for this is simple. We definitely realize that we have been slow to market with this portion of the suspension, since the release of the 2011's, and feel it has inconvenienced our customer base drastically, so, tell us what you want. We will compile everything, make a sound decision, and make them available to the market.

Let's talk sway-bars! Heck, bring all the threads about sway-bars over here....compare the current ones, whatever you think or have to say about the bars for 2005-Mustangs, post up.

For those that participate, thank you.

 

[BMR Tech]

I like where this thread is going!

Do I see 2 sway bars mounted in there?? lol

Your sure do.

 

[fun4me]

I'm not a suspension expert to offer suggestions on mounting.

I would like to see a bar with stiffer setting, that will set it apart from the competition. Ford went stiff on the Boss and Boss LS, they might know what they're doing.

I dont think a few pounds on a 3800lb car is a big deal.

And maybe you can offer a choice of steel or billet endlinks and bushing mounts. Zerks on the bushings possible?

Under $500, so I can pick it up on sale for $425.

 

[stang389]

I would like to see something like the white line layout with adjustable end links for us corner carver guys so we can corner balance the car easier.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I just snapped a few pictures under my own car, but I really need to take a few more with the car up on ramps to see other angles.

Other than the possible clearance issue with huge tires, the basic OE routing puts the bar ends out where you want them. Though with Sam's more or less similar rear bar routing it does look like there's room to squeeze part of the arms further inboard (probably at some cost in rate).

You won't want to use an endlink at the axle end if you're using anything that looks like the OE bar links, and you don't want it hanging down that far
anyway - the bar ends would end up being the lowest points on the car. I don't think it's a suitable place for rod ends anyway.

A blade design would be great for a W2W race car, but more than likely a maintenance headache for a dual purpose daily-driver/track - autocross car.

One thing I need to do is revisit my sta-bar stiffness sheet, at least partly to find out just what other kinds of sta-bar stiffness numbers have meaning. Lb/in at the ends makes for simple comparisons among generally similar bars, but loses usefulness as bar shapes vary more widely. When you come right down to it, the roll stiffness that a bar provides to the car is in units of in-lb/degree, and the chassis bracket forces are typically larger than the bar end forces.

And I'll try to find time to see if I can still get a little engineering software to run that can handle bends in steel tubes. That ought to provide better stiffness numbers than any of the hand-calculation approaches and eliminate the hand-calc assumption you have to make (that the bends don't matter).

I do like the idea of adjustable-length sta-bar links.


Norm

 

[BMR Tech]

Great input.

Here are a few pictures, for reference. and a few of our current bar design.

 

[leviathon]

maybe combine those two designs somehow? that was carvers and launchers can have both whenever they want and just flip between the 2. maybe a modular design?

Great input.

Here are a few pictures, for reference. and a few of our current bar design.

 

[BMR Tech]

You are reading our mind, huh?

 

[GallopingFord]

maybe combine those two designs somehow? that was carvers and launchers can have both whenever they want and just flip between the 2. maybe a modular design?

This. I was going to just get the FRPP set, but now I'll wait for what you guys at BMR come out with.