C&L Manifold results NA: Part 1

[chad05gt]

Maximum MAF counts at 6600RPM were 907, the MAF is far from maxed out, fueling is not an issue.

Do a google or youtube search for Woodbine Motorsports and you will find plenty about me and my company. I have been in the automotive industry since I was 18 and am now 42 years old.

I have been tuning with SCT for over 5 years and 2 years with Diablosport, our specialty is all Mustangs and Lightnings. We have been on the show Pinks All Out, in several magazines and have ghost tuned for several companies over the years. I am also a member of EFITO a private forum by invite only of the top tuners in the country.

As for the results that we achieved with this intake manifold they are right in line with what has been observed elsewhere. Initially when this unit was tested before release there was an honest 17hp gain by removing the stock intake manifold with its charge plates and putting on the C&L, its always been known that removing the charge plates with the stock manifold and retuning yields around 7hp so with that in thought the C&L itself is worth about 10hp.

Magazine articles are one thing and so are dyno's, its the track that tells the tale. We here at WMS do not detune for low baseline numbers and then install a mod and retune for wonderful gains just for attention or more business. It is not in our best interest nor is it in our customers best interest to play such games. I have never had a disapointed tuning customer because I am up front and honest with them from the start even if that means not selling a product.

All dyno runs done for the OP were conducted under the same conditions, a fully warmed up car with no tricks or long cooldown times, no ice on the intake or anything else that might skew the numbers, each run was started at the exact same coolant temp and IAT1 temp(within a degree or two).

I hope this information helps,
JJ@WMS

So... this is your first C&L intake tune?

And wouldnt you agree, that if you'd had 6months to tinker with this thing, thing may have gone different?

 

[Boss281]

Chad, these things just hit the streets, of course they are the first seen by just a handful of shops!! The thing that has me curious is the manifold hit the streets just a bit ago, and yet I'm the only one to post observations. If others have let me know, I'm all ears. Don't you find their silence, um, interesting though?

We're not done yet, as I want to get a drag run in before we start messing around further (next 6 days have rain predicted--WTF is up with that???)...we're bench quarterbacking dyno runs, and I don't yet have data for the real test, the track...

EDIT: here's the graph. The first 3 runs are yesterday's runs with stock manifold and delete plates. the 4th run is swapping in the manifold but no tune changes, and the remainder are adjusting the tune for the manifold. I'm a newb with this software for displaying the charts so all errors are mine:

 

[chad05gt]

Chad, these things just hit the streets, of course they are the first seen by just a handful of shops!! The thing that has me curious is the manifold hit the streets just a bit ago, and yet I'm the only one to post observations. If others have let me know, I'm all ears. Don't you find their silence, um, interesting though?


These thing have been passing from shop to shop/tuner to tuner between Alabama and Houston and all inbetween for several months now... no ones sharing info b/c:

Some had to take a chance and invest time/effort/cars to find/get these things tuned.... NOW that they are available, tuners want these base's just given to them to sell... its gotten pretty nasty. To a point where some of these tuners having trouble getting the units now!

Fukn s197 drama...


Desperate s197 Husbands! LOL

 

[JJ@WMS]

So... this is your first C&L intake tune?

And wouldnt you agree, that if you'd had 6months to tinker with this thing, thing may have gone different?

Yes this is the first C&L intake manifold tune for an S197 that I have done and no I do not think that if I had 6 months with the unit I would get 20 more hp out of it. Its already been confirmed to me that these results are right in line with what the companies that had the unit in all forms of prototype, pre production and production units are seeing themselves.

There is no "magic in a bottle" here guys. Not every part that is available for your vehicles gives you exactly what is advertised and sometimes those parts wind up delivering even less then whats expected. Its easy to blame the tuner and thats fine, but I do not play games with the dyno I use or the techniques that I use on a before and after dyno session to make myself or the product that I'm testing look good, it only serves to backfire on you in the long run if you do so.

JJ@WMS

 

[470 GT/CS]

JJ, what would you attribute John's immaculate gain from the C&L Manifold to? I really am stunned by him gaining no HP whatsoever.

 

[white05gt]

So... this is your first C&L intake tune?

And wouldnt you agree, that if you'd had 6months to tinker with this thing, thing may have gone different?

Just curious, I do not have any tuning experience, but how much tuning can just an intake swap need? I don't think it would need many adjustments let alone enough to gain the numbers that they were in the magazines.

 

[470 GT/CS]

+1 I don't think it'd need too much besides correcting the A/F.

 

[Boss281]

the manifold instructions came with a list of things to change similar to delete plates: zero out factory values relate to the plates, add back timing, throttle "tip-in". One unique item was to increase the manifold volume table value.

Then there is the a/f, of course...

 

[470 GT/CS]

Well I hope you can get at least to 350rwhp with more tuning adjustments.

 

[firestang70]

JJ thanks for an honest and unbiased look at a new product.

 

[EagleStroker]

Boss thanks for the feedback and that of your tuners. People are to quick to point the blame, good luck at the track it will be a long wet wait!

 

[470 GT/CS]

I fully believe John's results, but they aren't what I expected, so then I started wondering why they were that way. If everything including tuning was executed properly, and those gains are the amount we'll see out of the manifold, then so be it.

 

[travelers]

It still may be John?

I know when you get a jlt cai from Jay,the tuning comes from DOUG so I don't know if evo does their own tuning on them now or if they have Dougs tune.

Yep to both

 

[travelers]

Just curious, I do not have any tuning experience, but how much tuning can just an intake swap need? I don't think it would need many adjustments let alone enough to gain the numbers that they were in the magazines.

You would be supprise at what each on effects each other. I'm not up on a lot of the stuff but I have seen some of them.

 

[marcspaz]

Something else to keep in mind is the fact that the gains you see will also be affected by other mods, i.e. P&P heads, more aggressive cams, FI, etc...

JJ has a great rep around these parts. I'm sure it is right on course with what was expected for Boss' setup.

 

[Boss281]

Something else to keep in mind is the fact that the gains you see will also be affected by other mods, i.e. P&P heads, more aggressive cams, FI, etc...

JJ has a great rep around these parts. I'm sure it is right on course with what was expected for Boss' setup.

Well, I'm sure not reusing the 127300s in the Fox Lake heads. More likely the 127500s, springs and limiters.

 

[AlloyGT]

Thanks Boss and JJ. Please continue to keep us posted. I'm very interested in what this intake will do with some decent heads and cams.

 

[GERMANSHEPERD]

Thanks Boss and JJ. Please continue to keep us posted. I'm very interested in what this intake will do with some decent heads and cams.

I got the same results as Boss281 and my car has ported heads and cams (127500 Comps).

 

[ZmanM3]

Maximum MAF counts at 6600RPM were 907, the MAF is far from maxed out, fueling is not an issue.

Do a google or youtube search for Woodbine Motorsports and you will find plenty about me and my company. I have been in the automotive industry since I was 18 and am now 42 years old.

I have been tuning with SCT for over 5 years and 2 years with Diablosport, our specialty is all Mustangs and Lightnings. We have been on the show Pinks All Out, in several magazines and have ghost tuned for several companies over the years. I am also a member of EFITO a private forum by invite only of the top tuners in the country.

As for the results that we achieved with this intake manifold they are right in line with what has been observed elsewhere. Initially when this unit was tested before release there was an honest 17hp gain by removing the stock intake manifold with its charge plates and putting on the C&L, its always been known that removing the charge plates with the stock manifold and retuning yields around 7hp so with that in thought the C&L itself is worth about 10hp.

Magazine articles are one thing and so are dyno's, its the track that tells the tale. We here at WMS do not detune for low baseline numbers and then install a mod and retune for wonderful gains just for attention or more business. It is not in our best interest nor is it in our customers best interest to play such games. I have never had a disapointed tuning customer because I am up front and honest with them from the start even if that means not selling a product.

All dyno runs done for the OP were conducted under the same conditions, a fully warmed up car with no tricks or long cooldown times, no ice on the intake or anything else that might skew the numbers, each run was started at the exact same coolant temp and IAT1 temp(within a degree or two).

I hope this information helps,
JJ@WMS

Thanks for posting.