control arm failure at the track this weekend

kevinatfms

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jesus. weight savings over life savings...no thank you. stock arms here with x5's, solid bushings all around.

larger gusset plates on top and bottom may be able to help spread the load. it would also help contain the tubing in the event of a failure. or just plate the top and bottom full width but this might negate the weigh savings that the arms are for....
 

2008 V6

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I suspect that the thick to thin structural discontinuity was involved at least as much as the HAZ effect. Won't speculate any further than that.


Norm

+1 - Need better picture / close ups

Even then speculation until you have the component in your hands to do an analysis.
 

STEVE_POE

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I was thinking about putting this on ebay . maybe a fixed auction price. say $1200 to help recover some of the costs to fix my race car. it weighs 9lbs

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403983433.jpg


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2008 V6

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You can zoom in on it a bit before it gets too fuzzy if you right-click/copy it to a photo editing software (I used Photo Editor).


Norm

Thanks - I did & can't see well enough to make a comment - Even then free advise is usually worth what you pay for it -

New pics helped - Hear is my $00.02

Don't like MIG welding for this type of structural component - Looks like mig could be wrong. I don’t want to go into detail but I have my reasons.

Post weld stress relieve for this type of structural component - Even non chromoly

Miss-matched steel thicknesses = High stresses @ joints especially with the constant load changes this component will see.

Dressing of weld to component looks poor - Stress Risers - but can’t see well from pic & won’t comment any more on this or prior subjects.

I purchased BMR’s rear lower square tubing control arms & upper adjustable which are more than sufficient for any application my vehicle will see. I am not trying to in any way bash anyone by my comments.
 

19COBRA93

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I think this pic says it all. The weld for the gusset led to it's demise. IMO, that weld should have been done down both sides, but not across the middle. If that makes sense. Looking at the design of the arm, that area would have the most stress under hard breaking, but it's right where the gusset stops. If the gusset would have continued around the curve, I don't think there would be any problems with it.
 

sheizasosay

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Philostang

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I've also had trouble with aftermarket front LCAs. Mine were from Agent 47. The set up I got was their "track" version, which I think is now their only version of their SLA.

These arms on the S197 seem to be under far more stress than the aftermarket anticipated (or had prior experience with). At least A47's design wasn't fighting to protect a curved tube, it's all straight inputs. Here it is out of the box:

Agent%252047%2520SLA%2520Components%2520130.jpg


In my case, I had weld failure as well as an enlarged mounting point where the rear strut bolted to the front arm. This happened after only 7-8 weekends.

2012-05-21%252014.15.03.jpg


After discovering this I pulled the arm, ground out the weld and laid down another bead to get me through an event. A47 sent me out revised arms that better reinforced this area (we worked out a deal). However, I also discovered that the hole in the old arms had significantly distorted.

2012-05-22%252015.02.16.jpg


I suspect that this was largely due to several factors, one of which was poor bolt selection. A fully threaded bolt was supplied for this mounting point, and I knew that was a no-no from the start (Carol Smith was whispering in my ear during the install, but I refused to listen). The pics don't really show it, but those threads had (as Smith warned) acted like little biting teeth with every vibration. They simply sawed their way through the metal stock.

On my last outing with them you could feel the front end hunting around under heavy braking, a condition I assume was precipitated by shifting of this point w/in the ovoid area. So anyway when the new arms went on, I used AN bolts w/solid shanks of proper length. Not sure how long they'll last, but it's better than the threaded bolts.

There are many morals to the story, but one that I took away was a renewed appreciation for the engineering and strength that went into the OEM arms.

Best,
-j
 

fdjizm

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Learning alot here fellas, this is why s197forum rules! :)
 

DusterRT

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I never got the warm-fuzzies from the looks of any of the aftermarket arms, so I started to design monoball inserts for the OEM arms. I made it to one mockup prototype before I sold the car, the cost for making the parts plus using top notch bearings, buying new A-arms and some (possibly unnecessary) machining on them would be the same or more as the fabricated arms currently available. I didn't think there would be enough of a market to make it worthwhile so I shelved the idea. However, in light of this thread; is this something people would be interested in?
 

DILYSI Dave

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I never got the warm-fuzzies from the looks of any of the aftermarket arms, so I started to design monoball inserts for the OEM arms. I made it to one mockup prototype before I sold the car, the cost for making the parts plus using top notch bearings, buying new A-arms and some (possibly unnecessary) machining on them would be the same or more as the fabricated arms currently available. I didn't think there would be enough of a market to make it worthwhile so I shelved the idea. However, in light of this thread; is this something people would be interested in?

I'd be interested in your shelved prototypes if you don't go forward with anything.
 

DusterRT

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I'd be interested in your shelved prototypes if you don't go forward with anything.


The prototype is just for mock-up in a junk A-arm and old K-member; it feels solid and the fit is great but it's pretty much a rough draft. I also didn't mess with provisions for seals or any form of bearing retainer. Oh, and there's the minor detail of only having one side right now. :) Still some work to do but I don't think it would take much to finish up.
 

5.0_SD

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I'm curious to hear opinions about the design of the control arm's from Kenny Brown that sheizososay posted a link to from the much more knowledgeable guys (since I too am learning a lot from this thread)...they look pretty beefy to me, however my knowledge of metallurgy pales in comparison to some of you here...praise be to S197 Forums Members as I have not seen ANYTHING like this discussed anywhere else! :worship:
 

sheizasosay

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I'm curious to hear opinions about the design of the control arm's from Kenny Brown that sheizososay posted a link to from the much more knowledgeable guys (since I too am learning a lot from this thread)...they look pretty beefy to me, however my knowledge of metallurgy pales in comparison to some of you here...praise be to S197 Forums Members as I have not seen ANYTHING like this discussed anywhere else! :worship:

I posted the link because because the way 19Cobra93 was describing the gusset in his reply sounded simliar to the Kenny Brown AGS 4.0 a-arm. I don't know anything about the KB a-arm other than what is described on that link.
 

5.0_SD

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I posted the link because because the way 19Cobra93 was describing the gusset in his reply sounded simliar to the Kenny Brown AGS 4.0 a-arm. I don't know anything about the KB a-arm other than what is described on that link.
I thought exactly the same thing when I saw the picture...that's why I was asking what others thought about KB's design of the a-arm...better than anything else out there? Worth the price? Or stick with stock?
 

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