Cortex Torque Arm Racechrono Track Review

[Whiskey11]

I don't know about the commonly agreed upon convention but I can tell you this. A torque arm is lightyears better than an upper control arm. It is not even close. Using the Watts link, TA and adjustable lower control arms gives the rear end a tremendous ability to articulate. You just have to drive it and you will see. Also you will have to change the lower control arms because the axle does move a tiny bit back and you need the adjustability to compensate.

Why would the axle move rearward with the torque arm? That sounds to me like the TA itself is too long and needs to be shortened. I'm also not sure how a set of LCA's fixes that since the TA itself would be keeping the diff at the same length regardless of the LCA length, then you shorten the LCA's?! Seems like that would pull the ends in while keeping the rear out. It would certainly be worth a call to Cortex to clarify on the issue.

I'm well aware of the "it's recommended" clause, but it simply isn't possible with my class. I could retrofit some poly bushings in on one end and have some custom Delrin inserts made for the axle end that would allow articulation, but that'd be EXPENSIVE and still doesn't allow for any adjustment, if indeed it was necessary.

I might have to wait and see what MM comes up with for their TA and pray it is bolt as well. Exhaust modifications are fine, it's just welding (personal reasons) and attaching to subframe connectors (not really an issue on the S197 chassis) that are no-no's.

 

[Sky Render]

I'm still waiting to see pictures of this thing installed.

Also, saying that a torque arm is better than a three-link simply "because it's better" isn't much of a reason. No offense, but I'd like a before-and-after comparison. A lot of the improvement you're feeling might be directly related to the Watts linkage, and not the torque arm.

 

[Memphis]

Just to throw in another choice to the mix has anybody seen prices or reviews on the new Lakewood Torque Arm or Watts Link for the S197? It would be awesome to see some side by side comparisons of the Cortex, MM, and Lakewood etc setups.. Have to agree with Sky though, would be great to see someone do some before and after times

 

[Whiskey11]

Just to throw in another choice to the mix has anybody seen prices or reviews on the new Lakewood Torque Arm or Watts Link for the S197? It would be awesome to see some side by side comparisons of the Cortex, MM, and Lakewood etc setups.. Have to agree with Sky though, would be great to see someone do some before and after times

I'm pretty sure Lakewood's Watts link is the one that I've seen pictures of it broken along with lots of bad things said about the brand as a whole.

 

[Sky Render]

Lakewood doesn't show a torque arm on their website. At least, I couldn't find one.

 

[barbaro]

I'm still waiting to see pictures of this thing installed.

Also, saying that a torque arm is better than a three-link simply "because it's better" isn't much of a reason. No offense, but I'd like a before-and-after comparison. A lot of the improvement you're feeling might be directly related to the Watts linkage, and not the torque arm.

Except for the fact that I drove with the Watts link for months before I ever put the torque arm on. So I had a chance to evaluate the Watts link individually. Watts link by itself is a 4 on a scale of 1-10. Add Torque arm and 11 on a 10 scale. I know there are skeptics and naysayers. I was one. I have reviewed the torque arm in detail on this forum in another thread. look for it. There you will find in detail why I say what I say. Bottom line is that while I respect everyone's opinion, Jesus could come down off the cross and tell me the torque arm is fools gold and I would laugh in his face. Again, I will repeat what I have said elsewhere. A torque arms is the single most transformative suspension mod you can do to your car. It is the equivalent of putting a supercharger on your suspension. If you don't believe me now, you will the second you drive one and I do mean one second because that is about how long it will take for you to notice the difference. Also, read this thread carefully and you will see that my review is more descriptive than you are suggesting. I am not in a position to nor do I endorse any particular product but that being said Cortex is fantastic stuff, the best I have come across.There are tons of pictures of Cortex torque arms installed on the internet. I have pictures of the unit including the bushings published in my review of the torque arm. Also, as to before and after times: The torque arm has been proven ad infinitum by Griggs, Cortex and others on the track. For this suspension, the torque arm is the holy grail. I know that occasionally people come to southern cal on vacation. If any of you would like to pm me when you are out here, I would be more than happy to let you drive my car and you can decide based on your own experience rather than mine and griggs and cortex and lakewood and Soon MM and maybe even BMR. All of whom acknowledge the efficacy of the torque arm. As to why the axle moves back an inch or so and whether that represents some incipient design defect . .. . all I know is that it works. It works better than anything else at improving the handling, grip, driveability and stability of the vehicle. So when I hear people express skepticism, I just laugh to myself half hoping y'all don't believe me so that when track time comes, I will be the only one with one. Under those circumstances, I really like my chances. I notice most of the anti torque arm rhetoric comes from the East Coast. I have noticed outright misinformation about torque arms coming from that part of the continent. Maybe because Griggs and Cortex are California concerns there is some skepticism. We might all be lilly livered liberals in dancing shoes, but if you find yourself dancing with a Cortex torque arm watts link equipped car, you will find an eager partner that most likely will leave you behind. Unless of course I am driving, in which case you may still have a fighting chance. But don't give me too much more time as I am getting better. For those of you in spec autocross or racing series, then the Torque arm watts link lower control arm grip package may not be legal. And for good reason, because if you get one, I am pretty sure you will dominate the competition that does not have one. Griggs did. easily.

See ryan king pictures for photos of torque arm installed. https://picasaweb.google.com/102238046544191725125

 

[Apex50]

Awesome writeup!

I've had good results using Track Addict on my iPhone. I use a GoPoint BT1 cable that plugs into the OBDII and feeds RPMs, throttle position and speed into the recording. I use it at VIR and Track Addict always recognizes that track and finish line for lap times. I have a cheapo windshield mount for the phone so it sits on the dash and gets a good GPS signal.

Here's a sample:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzabcjhQEHI&sns=em

So far I've spent about $70 altogether and get really nice videos. Eventually I will add a gopro with wifi and be able to control it from Track Addict. There's a program called Race Render that will combine the two videos. I think it would be helpful to mount the gopro outside so I can see how well I'm using the whole track, something that instructors are always criticizing me for.

You're lucky to be so close to Willow Springs, someday I'm going to get out there and try that track!

 

[Whiskey11]

Again, the issue with the Torque arm isn't the torque arm itself, it's any requirement for LCA's that IS against the rules and is all the way to Street Mod where it finally becomes legal. Lots of guys running TA's above that class. I'd love to have a conversation with the guys at Cortex about running the TA with stock control arms but I'm sure it will turn sales pitch about control arms.

I'm also not sure what geographic location has to do with suspension choice. FWIW though I'm in the Midwest.

 

[Roadracer350]

Awesome writeup!

I've had good results using Track Addict on my iPhone. I use a GoPoint BT1 cable that plugs into the OBDII and feeds RPMs, throttle position and speed into the recording. I use it at VIR and Track Addict always recognizes that track and finish line for lap times. I have a cheapo windshield mount for the phone so it sits on the dash and gets a good GPS signal.

Here's a sample:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzabcjhQEHI&sns=em

So far I've spent about $70 altogether and get really nice videos. Eventually I will add a gopro with wifi and be able to control it from Track Addict. There's a program called Race Render that will combine the two videos. I think it would be helpful to mount the gopro outside so I can see how well I'm using the whole track, something that instructors are always criticizing me for.

You're lucky to be so close to Willow Springs, someday I'm going to get out there and try that track!

Ok i could only watch a min of that video before I started screaming... WHY IS EVERYONE SINGLE FILE?!?!? You can do that down on Memorial dr... GAS IT!! Btw thats a cool app. Ok rant over...

 

[Norm Peterson]

I don't know about the commonly agreed upon convention but I can tell you this. A torque arm is lightyears better than an upper control arm. It is not even close.

Worlds better than any stockish triangulated/converging 4-link I'll give you. I'm fully aware that the TA was the go-to solution for Fox/SN95 Mustangs (where competition-legal, anyway). In those cases, the TA was actually worlds better than two UCAs (that are each trying to do too many things and doing none of them well).

I've even driven a TA-equipped car at autocross, and they are easy to drive.


But I'm going to need stronger evidence about a TA being superior to a 3-link, and if we're allowed to tweak the rest of the rear suspension to maximize the TA's showing I think we need to be considering what similar-ish tweaks would optimize an OE S197 3-link. I just don't see a TA inherently providing much articulation with respect to axle steer even though it should be pretty good in roll.



Whiskey - a torque arm is not pinned at the chassis end, but is free to "plunge", typically within a bushing. A slightly different approach uses a short vertical-ish link at the chassis end to provide this plunge via a different mechanism (but really this second method is kinematically identical to the 3rd link and its axle bracket in a true 3-link).


Norm

 

[DTL]

I'm no geometry or chassis expert, but here's why I went from 3rd link to TA and why:

My '13 GT is the first street/track car I've had in 15 or so years. The last one was a '97 Camaro (torque arm / panhard). Since then, all my track toys have been trailer-only. I'm predisposed to liking torque arm cars and have a lot of laps in them, but I was eager to try out the 3rd link design. I figured it would be night and day better than the old triangulated 4link (and it is). The first thing I noticed about the 3rd link design is how short the upper arm is and (as a result) how wildly the pinion angle changes as the rear end moves through it's arc. On a dedicated race car with a zero-droop setup, this probably wouldn't matter much, but on a car that sees street time, it matters. My first (and only) track outing with the 3rd link was a little wild. I was used to cars that took a set and stayed planted. I found that while the Mustang was VERY capable out of the box, it would take a set, then "change it's mind" for lack of a better description, as the load on the rear changed. Now, I'm not talking about it just turning the tire under power, but getting odd and inconsistent rear-steer depending on how much or little the rear was compressed. Additionally, under braking, as the rear came up, the car would get very "darty." Again, much of this can be attributed to shock package and other factors, but i'll get to that. After I got home and did a little research, I discovered that in order to get the IC "correct", the chassis-side 3rd link mount needed to come up several inches. That'd be great, but "up several inches" is sitting in the back seat. There are people that make a mount that does this, but I didn't want to hack the floorpan on my new ride.

Enter the Torque Arm: As I admitted before, I'm predisposed to liking torque arms and, after a few discussions with friends of mine familiar with the s197 chassis, I decided to try the Cortex TA and Watts. I chose the Cortex unit because it seemed to be a cleaner installation than the Griggs unit and more tailored to the s197 chassis. The Griggs unit, IMHO, appeared to be a sn95 arm that had been adapted to fit the s197. The next time out at the track, I noticed significantly more predictability under transition throttle in both a straight line and under varying cornering loads. Additionally, the car handled turning with elevation and throttle changes much easier. Braking was also far more predictable. Some of this behavior (the cornering transitions in particular) should be credited to the watts link more than the torque arm, but they went on at the same time, so it is what it is.

Currently, I'm experimenting with spring rates on the set of Penske shocks and struts my brother and BIL were kind enough to hook me up with and unfortunately, waiting to decide what to do with a hurt axle in the rear end. Once the rear is fixed and back together I'll be back out with the latest shock/spring package and hopefully have more data.

Edit: In regards to the wheelbase issue mentioned earlier, you can easily change that with adjustable lower control arms. The torque arm floats in a spherical bearing at the front that does not restrict fore/aft movement or twist of the axle housing. Only pinion angle is controlled. (as it should be).

 

[Whiskey11]

Worlds better than any stockish triangulated/converging 4-link I'll give you. I'm fully aware that the TA was the go-to solution for Fox/SN95 Mustangs (where competition-legal, anyway). In those cases, the TA was actually worlds better than two UCAs (that are each trying to do too many things and doing none of them well).

I've even driven a TA-equipped car at autocross, and they are easy to drive.


But I'm going to need stronger evidence about a TA being superior to a 3-link, and if we're allowed to tweak the rest of the rear suspension to maximize the TA's showing I think we need to be considering what similar-ish tweaks would optimize an OE S197 3-link. I just don't see a TA inherently providing much articulation with respect to axle steer even though it should be pretty good in roll.



Whiskey - a torque arm is not pinned at the chassis end, but is free to "plunge", typically within a bushing. A slightly different approach uses a short vertical-ish link at the chassis end to provide this plunge via a different mechanism (but really this second method is kinematically identical to the 3rd link and its axle bracket in a true 3-link).


Norm

Norm, I'm aware it can move fore/aft when necessary. I'm not sure where I indicated it was fixed? I'm assuming it was in relation to the comment I made about the TA being too long?

I've probably read a bajillion posts on TA's over on various forums (including Corner Carvers and the Pro-Touring boards) as well as a bunch of posts from you over on those forums as well!

Norm, I know you have a general idea on the rules for ST/SP in SCCA Auto-X, do you think a TA or aftermarket 3 link setup is going to be the better choice? As painful as it is to say (and I'm sure I'll get jumped on for saying it), it seems like the TA offers the ability for better forward bite at the start (Pro Solo launch?) as well as power down out of a corner as well as reducing bind induced from articulation. The one big problem that I see is that it would definitely increase power on understeer as the TA tries to lift the front of the car on acceleration. I'm sure it can be tuned around to some extent but it will always happen right?

 

[sheizasosay]

Whiskey....I highly fucking enjoyed your write up! Makes me jones hard core for some track time. Sounds like you had a blast.

 

[Philostang]

I haven't seen anyone express any "anti-torque arm rhetoric" here - as my Midwest brother Whiskey points out, the concerns are more around the other factors a torque arm requires (and some of these for specific rule sets).

For myself, the concern I have (if you would call it that) is a form of skepticism in the sorts of evaluations that are offered. There's far too little systematic comparison in what's been posted. So yeah, you put X part on and it felt great. We've seen that before far too many times to reliably attribute the good feeling to X's intrinsic qualities or if the improvement is really coming from surrounding factors.

For example, a guy says, "tubular lower control arms are the sh*t man! They're so much stiffer than the factory arms, so you can really control wheel hop." Ok, this is a misconception born of not isolating appropriate variables. Truth: they guy who slaps on those new tubular control arms really did experienced a massive improvement. Truth (poss.): the link of the tubular control arms is stiffer than the OEM piece. But we have to ask if one really is the cause of the other. The answer is far more likely attributed to the improved bushings in the new arms, not the fact that the arms themselves are stiffer. So the guy falsely believes that the OEM arms are not stiff enough. Further, he falsely believes he has a significant advantage over any other guy running anything remotely like the OEM arms because his arms stiffer.

This seems to be the real skepticism with the "pro-torque arm" camp. It's nothing in the torque arms themselves that often raises questions, it's the nature of the reports. Did you experience a massive improvement? Sure, why would we doubt that. After all, a torque arm has pretty well acknowledged benefits (pinon angle control, for ex.). But what were you running before? Stock upper & lower control arms? The Watts sure, but run at the track or just street? Tire change? Alignment change? Note that much of what DTL reported (and I think he's open about this) could have been easily attributed to other factors.

Here's another way to put it. Take any stock `05-`06 (at the least), slap a decent panhard bar on with stiffer bushings (or better, w/rod ends) and cornering predictability skyrockets as the rear end is better controlled. You'll rave about a holy grail. I certainly did with my `06 after my first panhard upgrade. But then I got shocks...then I got serious shocks w/entry-level track appropriate springs.

See the point? There's a host of things going on in such comparisons, and even careful pro and semi-pro teams have to judge with caution. Mostly at that level they also have the advantage of being able to test, test, test, and do so in a much more structured way. And what reports do they send back to those of us mere enthusiasts? "Things work together in packages." There are no holy grails, but there are well-developed systems. And you have to work meticulously to get there.

Best,
-j

 

[Whiskey11]

Whiskey....I highly fucking enjoyed your write up! Makes me jones hard core for some track time. Sounds like you had a blast.

Moi? I'm not the OP. Or was that Whiskey.... as in "Whiskey, shut the hell up"?

 

[barbaro]

I haven't seen anyone express any "anti-torque arm rhetoric" here - as my Midwest brother Whiskey points out, the concerns are more around the other factors a torque arm requires (and some of these for specific rule sets).

For myself, the concern I have (if you would call it that) is a form of skepticism in the sorts of evaluations that are offered. There's far too little systematic comparison in what's been posted. So yeah, you put X part on and it felt great. We've seen that before far too many times to reliably attribute the good feeling to X's intrinsic qualities or if the improvement is really coming from surrounding factors.

For example, a guy says, "tubular lower control arms are the sh*t man! They're so much stiffer than the factory arms, so you can really control wheel hop." Ok, this is a misconception born of not isolating appropriate variables. Truth: they guy who slaps on those new tubular control arms really did experienced a massive improvement. Truth (poss.): the link of the tubular control arms is stiffer than the OEM piece. But we have to ask if one really is the cause of the other. The answer is far more likely attributed to the improved bushings in the new arms, not the fact that the arms themselves are stiffer. So the guy falsely believes that the OEM arms are not stiff enough. Further, he falsely believes he has a significant advantage over any other guy running anything remotely like the OEM arms because his arms stiffer.

This seems to be the real skepticism with the "pro-torque arm" camp. It's nothing in the torque arms themselves that often raises questions, it's the nature of the reports. Did you experience a massive improvement? Sure, why would we doubt that. After all, a torque arm has pretty well acknowledged benefits (pinon angle control, for ex.). But what were you running before? Stock upper & lower control arms? The Watts sure, but run at the track or just street? Tire change? Alignment change? Note that much of what DTL reported (and I think he's open about this) could have been easily attributed to other factors.

Here's another way to put it. Take any stock `05-`06 (at the least), slap a decent panhard bar on with stiffer bushings (or better, w/rod ends) and cornering predictability skyrockets as the rear end is better controlled. You'll rave about a holy grail. I certainly did with my `06 after my first panhard upgrade. But then I got shocks...then I got serious shocks w/entry-level track appropriate springs.

See the point? There's a host of things going on in such comparisons, and even careful pro and semi-pro teams have to judge with caution. Mostly at that level they also have the advantage of being able to test, test, test, and do so in a much more structured way. And what reports do they send back to those of us mere enthusiasts? "Things work together in packages." There are no holy grails, but there are well-developed systems. And you have to work meticulously to get there.

Best,
-j

The true test of your skepticism is experience. I have considered everything you have said before you said it. I came at the issue with an even greater skepticism than you. I have been mislead many times. But I have an unfair advantage in this conversation. I have experienced this thing we are talking about. Others who have experienced it, you will notice, agree with me. I suspect if you experience it you will agree with me as well. This is my detailed review. http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99544&highlight=torque+arm+review

Worlds better than any stockish triangulated/converging 4-link I'll give you. I'm fully aware that the TA was the go-to solution for Fox/SN95 Mustangs (where competition-legal, anyway). In those cases, the TA was actually worlds better than two UCAs (that are each trying to do too many things and doing none of them well).

I've even driven a TA-equipped car at autocross, and they are easy to drive.


But I'm going to need stronger evidence about a TA being superior to a 3-link, and if we're allowed to tweak the rest of the rear suspension to maximize the TA's showing I think we need to be considering what similar-ish tweaks would optimize an OE S197 3-link. I just don't see a TA inherently providing much articulation with respect to axle steer even though it should be pretty good in roll.



Norm

Norm. Theorizing about it is good. Experiencing it on your own car is better. Everybody who has driven a torque arm equipped car says the same thing. I at first resisted the messianic zeal of the "Torquees". Finally, I gave in, worn down by their persistence. Once I did, I kicked myself for resisting. People who say the traditional three link design is better than this might as well tell me the earth is flat. Once experienced, it is no longer a debatable matter. This issue has been put to the test on the track as well. I believe the results were impressive. But even if it did not improve lap times it would be worth it just because it makes the car more comfortable and driveable.

Norm, I know you have a general idea on the rules for ST/SP in SCCA Auto-X, do you think a TA or aftermarket 3 link setup is going to be the better choice? As painful as it is to say (and I'm sure I'll get jumped on for saying it), it seems like the TA offers the ability for better forward bite at the start (Pro Solo launch?) as well as power down out of a corner as well as reducing bind induced from articulation. The one big problem that I see is that it would definitely increase power on understeer as the TA tries to lift the front of the car on acceleration. I'm sure it can be tuned around to some extent but it will always happen right?

That is what I don't get? "As painful as it is to say (and I'm sure I'll get jumped on for saying it)" Why is it painful to say? And why should you get jumped on for saying it? Is advocating a torque arm some kind of heresy? And if it is, who is the vaunted authority who disdains it? on the one hand you want a TA but on the other, you throw a bone to the skeptics by identifying a theoretical problem "power on understeer as the TA tries to lift the front of the car on acceleration." Except, the problem you have identified does not exist. In fact, the opposite is the case. The front end no longer lifts on acceleration and the nose does not dive during braking. Power understeer? I don't know. I just took a 90 degree turn at 90 mph 25 times. Half of those, it looked like Steve McQueen was driving, only he wasn't. I was. And I am no Steve McQueen. McQueen would not tolerate understeer and there was none to be tolerated. All you naysayers do amuse me. The only thing I can say is you will have to see for yourselves because you won't get the to the truth by theorizing your way to it or trying to find or even invent objective reasons why peoples' subjective evaluations are delusional. Again, my invitation is always open. See: http://griggsracing.blogspot.com/p/tourquearm-tech.html Also proven on the track: http://griggsracing.blogspot.com/2011/09/test-drive-old-blue.html

Awesome writeup!

I've had good results using Track Addict on my iPhone. I use a GoPoint BT1 cable that plugs into the OBDII and feeds RPMs, throttle position and speed into the recording. I use it at VIR and Track Addict always recognizes that track and finish line for lap times. I have a cheapo windshield mount for the phone so it sits on the dash and gets a good GPS signal.

Here's a sample:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzabcjhQEHI&sns=em

So far I've spent about $70 altogether and get really nice videos. Eventually I will add a gopro with wifi and be able to control it from Track Addict. There's a program called Race Render that will combine the two videos. I think it would be helpful to mount the gopro outside so I can see how well I'm using the whole track, something that instructors are always criticizing me for.

You're lucky to be so close to Willow Springs, someday I'm going to get out there and try that track!

Damn VIR is a nice track. I can't believe how long the straights are. It just looks lush. If you wipe out at Willow it is bad, very bad. The infield and outfield are nasty rock strewn dusty, full of berms and ditches. Vir is lush . If you go off track there you are on God's green grass. My car with it's extra horsepower and high redline would really love that track. I am going to look up that system. Nice video.

 

[Wes06]

side note, awesome track vid.
that straight away looked fun/shit inducing scary at the same time
some of those people couldnt take a corner could they? either shot out to the extreme opposite side or creeped through<the vette>

 

[Apex50]

Haha- thanks for the feedback on the video, guys. That was from the novice group so passing was only allowed in a few sections, and most drivers were too stressed to manage traffic and learn the lines.

I love VIR. It's great for high HP cars.

 

[Roadracer350]

Haha- thanks for the feedback on the video, guys. That was from the novice group so passing was only allowed in a few sections, and most drivers were too stressed to manage traffic and learn the lines.

I love VIR. It's great for high HP cars.

Ok I was just wondering. I was like " Pass Him! Pass Him!!! GAS GAS GAS!!!"

 

[sheizasosay]

Moi? I'm not the OP. Or was that Whiskey.... as in "Whiskey, shut the hell up"?

I would really like to blame my phone's tiny screen, but that one is played out. We'll call it "lost in the sauce" syndrome. Yeah it was to Barbaro. My bad whiskey.

Barbaro- I highly fucking enjoyed your write up lol...


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