Coyote Catastrophic Failure

[blackgt87]

KB does not recammend a plug upgrade, but you did that? KB also has set component requirements for their kit based on THEIR tune. You screwed that up with a custom tune. I have no clue what your definition of "good" is.

We can do this all day. If you think you had enough fuel, then run your new boss short block as is. Then start saving your pennies to repeat this whole process again. Then I'll look for another thread bashing a tuner for your screw up. I will say this, your tuner should have been smart enough to tell you to upgrade your fuel system before he tuned it. You may want to educate yourself on fuel requirments for FI motors. You may also want to start taking some responsability for your half assed combination and stop blaming the tuner. Funny how it's always the tuners fault when someone brings in an incomplete combo and the motor pops.

We have all made big mistakes, the point is, learn from it and accept the real cause. Even with a spot on, maxed out tune, your motor would not have lived long without proper fueling.

Kenne Bell wrote the instructions for their kit before a plug upgrade was available, since the stock ones worked they tell people they are fine. I asked them about that (like I did everything else during my install) and they said I could go with a colder plug but it wasn't necessary. I figured if a colder plug was available when they wrote the instructions they would have used it, so I put them in.

Don't call my combo half assed, call Kenn Bell's out of the box supercharger kit half assed, because that's what I was running. My combo wasn't a combo, I didn't put shit together. I put a supercharger kit on. I did take responsibilty, I just know for sure this wasn't 100% my fault or the "combos" fault.

Still never answered my question how a car can run out of fuel but lambda still shows good. WTF would be the point of widebands?

 

[2c5s]

Kenne Bell wrote the instructions for their kit before a plug upgrade was available, since the stock ones worked they tell people they are fine. I asked them about that (like I did everything else during my install) and they said I could go with a colder plug but it wasn't necessary. I figured if a colder plug was available when they wrote the instructions they would have used it, so I put them in.

Don't call my combo half assed, call Kenn Bell's out of the box supercharger kit half assed, because that's what I was running. My combo wasn't a combo, I didn't put shit together. I put a supercharger kit on. I did take responsibilty, I just know for sure this wasn't 100% my fault or the "combos" fault.

Still never answered my question how a car can run out of fuel but lambda still shows good. WTF would be the point of widebands?

Have you called KB to warranty you're motor since it's their kit????


My guess is no, because your not running their OOTB SC kit. You had it tuned numbnuts.

You chose it, you installed it, then you chose to deviate from the "kit". It's your combo.

My goodness, are really this dense? Clearly reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suites. It's 100% your fault. You turned your car into a time bomb waiting to explode by having it tuned and not having enough fuel. I'm pretty damn sure KB had it tuned for 47's and no BAP.

People like you are the reason "tuners" dread their profession. Just enough knowledge, or lack of to be dangerous, and it's always the tuners fault.

You still haven't given me your definition of "good". Meh, don't bother, you know everything already.... that's why your car is broken.... I'll just sit back, watch you call me a dumb azz and wait for your follow up "Coyote Catastrophic Failure II" thread.

Here is some more free advice, you better have the blower checked to be sure it didn't suck up any debris when the piston let go. Nah, don't bother, I don't know shit................

 

[blackgt87]

Have you called KB to warranty you're motor since it's their kit????


My guess is no, because your not running their OOTB SC kit. You had it tuned numbnuts.

You chose it, you installed it, then you chose to deviate from the "kit". It's your combo.

My goodness, are really this dense? Clearly reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suites. It's 100% your fault. You turned your car into a time bomb waiting to explode by having it tuned and not having enough fuel. I'm pretty damn sure KB had it tuned for 47's and no BAP.

People like you are the reason "tuners" dread their profession. Just enough knowledge, or lack of to be dangerous, and it's always the tuners fault.

You still haven't given me your definition of "good". Meh, don't bother, you know everything already.... that's why your car is broken.... I'll just sit back, watch you call me a dumb azz and wait for your follow up "Coyote Catastrophic Failure II" thread.

Here is some more free advice, you better have the blower checked to be sure it didn't suck up any debris when the piston let go. Nah, don't bother, I don't know shit................

I like the caps and the name calling and the 1000 question marks, since you can't get your point across like a normal person.

I meant the hardware was the ootb Kenne Bell kit, the injectors and BAP (the stuff you're saying I didn't have that popped my motor) would be considered hardware. I didn't hobble together a bunch of shit and then have it tuned. I had a complete kit re-tuned to shut the rear o2's off and fix the idle. The only more power I was promised or expected was from cam timing adjustments, something I didn't think added any "danger" to the tune the way ignition timing would or playing with AF ratios.

Since I'm so "dense" let me get this straight... You agree KB tuned it for 47's and no BAP. It ran great for a long time on their tune outside of the CEL and idle problem (great in this case means not blown up). I change NOTHING, except the tune. The motor blows, and now all of a sudden its a "half assed combo" without enough fuel? Umm wtf? How does that make any sense? It runs fine, change tune, motor pops. I'm pretty sure anybody could conclude it was the tune from that, especially given how soon after he tuned it that it let go.

Even though you're incapable of answerng my simple question (because there is no answer because you are wrong) I will take a stab at yours. What I meant by "good" is that Kenne Bell knew my car had no cats. They knew every detail there was to know about my car, Matt even likes the color, and they did not recommend bigger injectors or a BAP. I asked if the kit would work on my car, I even offered to put the stock H pipe back on even though I hate the idea of running stock cats with a blower, and they said it will be fine. That's what I meant by "good".

If the only reason my car ran out of fuel was because of the new tune then it is 100% the tuners fault. If the fuel system was maxed out by Kenne Bells tune he should have shut my rear o2's off, fixed the idle, and said "I'm sorry you cannot make any more power with your current "combo" (ootb Kenne Bell kit) because your fuel system will not support it. I am a tuner and I can read a fucking wideband and that is what I saw on the dyno". Not "hey I tuned your car so that it runs dangerously out of fuel, somehow made it slower, and gave you some new driveabiltiy problems. BTW don't change a thing unless you want to make more power." (that btw sentence is a direct quote from Jeff)

Oh and the blower and lower intake were already sent to Kenne Bell for inspection/repair. They are "good to go", you might have to ask KB for a definition on that one lol thats just what they told me.

 

[2c5s]

I like the caps and the name calling and the 1000 question marks, since you can't get your point across like a normal person.

I meant the hardware was the ootb Kenne Bell kit, the injectors and BAP (the stuff you're saying I didn't have that popped my motor) would be considered hardware. I didn't hobble together a bunch of shit and then have it tuned. I had a complete kit re-tuned to shut the rear o2's off and fix the idle. The only more power I was promised or expected was from cam timing adjustments, something I didn't think added any "danger" to the tune the way ignition timing would or playing with AF ratios.

Since I'm so "dense" let me get this straight... You agree KB tuned it for 47's and no BAP. It ran great for a long time on their tune outside of the CEL and idle problem (great in this case means not blown up). I change NOTHING, except the tune. The motor blows, and now all of a sudden its a "half assed combo" without enough fuel? Umm wtf? How does that make any sense? It runs fine, change tune, motor pops. I'm pretty sure anybody could conclude it was the tune from that, especially given how soon after he tuned it that it let go.

Even though you're incapable of answerng my simple question (because there is no answer because you are wrong) I will take a stab at yours. What I meant by "good" is that Kenne Bell knew my car had no cats. They knew every detail there was to know about my car, Matt even likes the color, and they did not recommend bigger injectors or a BAP. I asked if the kit would work on my car, I even offered to put the stock H pipe back on even though I hate the idea of running stock cats with a blower, and they said it will be fine. That's what I meant by "good".

If the only reason my car ran out of fuel was because of the new tune then it is 100% the tuners fault. If the fuel system was maxed out by Kenne Bells tune he should have shut my rear o2's off, fixed the idle, and said "I'm sorry you cannot make any more power with your current "combo" (ootb Kenne Bell kit) because your fuel system will not support it. I am a tuner and I can read a fucking wideband and that is what I saw on the dyno". Not "hey I tuned your car so that it runs dangerously out of fuel, somehow made it slower, and gave you some new driveabiltiy problems. BTW don't change a thing unless you want to make more power." (that btw sentence is a direct quote from Jeff)

Oh and the blower and lower intake were already sent to Kenne Bell for inspection/repair. They are "good to go", you might have to ask KB for a definition on that one lol thats just what they told me.

How much time do I have to waste today on your error in judgement?

Should I play along and ask what your A/F was at all times? What kind of dyno he was using? How much load was on the car? Did he street tune it? Was it ever lean? Did it ever knock?

Or should I say, you're absolutely correct. Enjoy that new combo because it's the tuners fault! He's supposed to be a mind reader and ask you every question under the sun to confirm the build was done correctly.

Looks like I'm not the only one, just say'n.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85491

 

[Quickshift302]

What's the rev limiter on KB's tune?

 

[2c5s]

What's the rev limiter on KB's tune?

Good question. I for one rev mine to 7,400-7,500 and it's clean as a whistle. But then again, I have enough fuel.

 

[blackgt87]

What's the rev limiter on KB's tune?

The rev limiter with the Kenne Bell tune was set to 7,300.

 

[blackgt87]

Yeah dude you said that before and I explained it....

 

[2c5s]

The rev limiter with the Kenne Bell tune was set to 7,300.

Maybe it was the extra 150 rpm that popped the motor.

 

[Quickshift302]

Dude I think some people are questioning the situations because many people don't except the responsability when things go south. It's easier to blame the tuner, enginebuilder, or whoever else than accept that it was a personal mistake.

We will never know the complete circumstances to your engine failure. Maybe your tuner was having a hard time hitting the nail on the head. Maybe you failed to grab third and bounced your shit off the limiter a few too many times. Maybe your tuner told you that your desired changes increased the risk. If the later two are closer to the truth, shame on you. The fact of the matter is that you said it yourself

No different from anything else with cars, some people have good experiences some have bad. He's a local tuner, so that basically means that anybody close enough to his shop already has an opinion, and everyone else is too far away to give a fuck.

Why bash on this guy when you obviously know how this works. While you have your opinion on what happend to you through this shop. Many other people have opinions on what happend to them through this shop. The only place this stupid fight doesnt equal out is for people like 2c5s and I who are too far away to really give a f*** but make our own opinions about you based on the thread. I personally think someone should call Lund and let him know your on the way. So as I read more of your posts I revoke my previous statement that you did a good job of NOT bashing the tuner too bad. I know your frustration but also know where responsability lies when it comes to this hobby.

Seriously man, start a new thread about your build, enjoy your badass coffee table , and most importantly enjoy your new engine. Rinse and repeat.

 

[DILYSI Dave]

If the AF log never went lean and the injectors never exceeded 80% duty cycle, then I agree that you don't need more fuel system. That said, SOMETHING obviously shit the bed, so at a minimum I'd be checking fuel pressure and flow, have the injectors checked out, etc.

 

[blackgt87]

Dude I think some people are questioning the situations because many people don't except the responsability when things go south. It's easier to blame the tuner, enginebuilder, or whoever else than accept that it was a personal mistake.

We will never know the complete circumstances to your engine failure. Maybe your tuner was having a hard time hitting the nail on the head. Maybe you failed to grab third and bounced your shit off the limiter a few too many times. Maybe your tuner told you that your desired changes increased the risk. If the later two are closer to the truth, shame on you. The fact of the matter is that you said it yourself



Why bash on this guy when you obviously know how this works. While you have your opinion on what happend to you through this shop. Many other people have opinions on what happend to them through this shop. The only place this stupid fight doesnt equal out is for people like 2c5s and I who are too far away to really give a f*** but make our own opinions about you based on the thread. I personally think someone should call Lund and let him know your on the way. So as I read more of your posts I revoke my previous statement that you did a good job of NOT bashing the tuner too bad. I know your frustration but also know where responsability lies when it comes to this hobby.

Seriously man, start a new thread about your build, enjoy your badass coffee table , and most importantly enjoy your new engine. Rinse and repeat.

The only thing I have done is defend the choices I made when I put the kit on, which there weren't very many. I have not continued to bash the tuner, I made my point, people can read, most of them are too far away to give a fuck, end of story.

I just get pissed when people call it "a half assed combo" when it was an out of the box kit that I asked him to tune, except for the lack of cats which KB said was fine. If I made a mistake and screwed something up I would admit it, but if YOU (any of you) did nothing wrong and it cost YOU (any of you) thousands of dollars you would be defensive too. Many of you would be crying worse than I am. Like I said I don't think this guy owes me the moon and the stars, I've come to terms with the fact that I'm on my own. Which is what the fuck this thread is supposed to be about. My rebuild.


Can we get back to complimenting my awesome pictures LMAO that was much more fun for me than all this arguing.

 

[blackgt87]

If the AF log never went lean and the injectors never exceeded 80% duty cycle, then I agree that you don't need more fuel system. That said, SOMETHING obviously shit the bed, so at a minimum I'd be checking fuel pressure and flow, have the injectors checked out, etc.

Exactly. I am going to see Fuel Injector Connection about buying some 72's since I plan to go to more boost with the new bottom end.

All I was saying is that if my current fuel system was inadequate it should show on the AF log, especially since my car was on a mustang dyno and I logged it on the street when it was pretty cool outside.

 

[Seer]

The only thing I have done is defend the choices I made when I put the kit on, which there weren't very many. I have not continued to bash the tuner, I made my point, people can read, most of them are too far away to give a fuck, end of story.

I just get pissed when people call it "a half assed combo" when it was an out of the box kit that I asked him to tune, except for the lack of cats which KB said was fine. If I made a mistake and screwed something up I would admit it, but if YOU (any of you) did nothing wrong and it cost YOU (any of you) thousands of dollars you would be defensive too. Many of you would be crying worse than I am. Like I said I don't think this guy owes me the moon and the stars, I've come to terms with the fact that I'm on my own. Which is what the fuck this thread is supposed to be about. My rebuild.


Can we get back to complimenting my awesome pictures LMAO that was much more fun for me than all this arguing.

Well aren't you just a regular Andy Warhol aren't you Bill?

Maybe you should start peeing on your photos, introduce some soup cans to them and start dating men... oh wait, you do a few of those things already.



How is that for a compliment?

 

[19COBRA93]

Your best picture, IMO, is of the pump gears. It's marketing quality.

 

[blackgt87]

Well aren't you just a regular Andy Warhol aren't you Bill?

Maybe you should start peeing on your photos, introduce some soup cans to them and start dating men... oh wait, you do a few of those things already.



How is that for a compliment?

LMAO well it did make me lol so thats good. Did Andy Warhol do that shit??

Your best picture, IMO, is of the pump gears. It's marketing quality.

Thanks dude. That's on my kitchen table and run through a couple filters on my phone. Yay for phone apps making shit easy!

BRB going to send that shit to TSS...

 

[gtmiller1001]

Fuck the comments about his decision not to run a BAP. Even if he was running out of fuel, any HALF ASSED tuner would/should realize that and stop pushing the damn car! That's why you PAY a tuner, to take care of things that you cannot. So, if he needed a BAP or any other fuel upgrades, that's the first thing this guy should have told him.

Also, let's not let this one get turned into a blame game. He came on here, respectably told his story and is giving some great info/pics on a re-build.

Someone asked if an Aeroforce monitors knock, it does not on these cars.

 

[way2qk4u2c]

fuck the comments about his decision not to run a bap. Even if he was running out of fuel, any half assed tuner would/should realize that and stop pushing the damn car! That's why you pay a tuner, to take care of things that you cannot. So, if he needed a bap or any other fuel upgrades, that's the first thing this guy should have told him.

Also, let's not let this one get turned into a blame game. He came on here, respectably told his story and is giving some great info/pics on a re-build.

Someone asked if an aeroforce monitors knock, it does not on these cars.

++++100000000000000

 

[2c5s]

Fuck the comments about his decision not to run a BAP. Even if he was running out of fuel, any HALF ASSED tuner would/should realize that and stop pushing the damn car! That's why you PAY a tuner, to take care of things that you cannot. So, if he needed a BAP or any other fuel upgrades, that's the first thing this guy should have told him.

I for one have watched plenty of people ignore tuner advice and go right on their merry way. pop

 

[Mystickeith50]

I have 47lbs, no bap, as per jon lund with my set up. I beat the breaks off my car so it can be done safely with no bap...just saying. Im not sure why it is so far fetched to believe it was a tune issue. There are prob 6-7 people on here that are good tuners. For every 6-7 there r 25 that are ok to suck balls. I have been thru this for 15 years owning/modding n have had combos that blow up from shitty tunes......built the same combo and had it tuned by a PRO who really specializes in these cars and it was fine. I don't know either party in this case but I think the op did a good job of just stating his case in the first post and then moving on to show destruction n build pics. All I know is like one of the only coyote blocks that I've seen that had a window in it, so something went drastically wrong and I don't think it was just not enough fuel.