Critique my setup. Absolutely free. No obligation.

Discussion in 'Corner Carver Racing Tech Discussion' started by 759-OR, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. 759-OR

    759-OR Junior Member

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    Slow winter on the site, so thought I’d throw down. I’ve got no ego, and am just here to learn.

    Here goes:

    . 2012 Brembo 6MT. Exclusively a weekend, fun, and track car. No autocross or drag racing ambitions. Two or three track days a year. Otherwise; canyons, go to the store, and cars n coffee. Just a fun toy. And don’t want to kill it for the street. I’ve done that to too many cars already. :)

    . Suspension. P.Springs, Bilsteins, 500 hats in factory (non.reversed) orientation. Steeda adj panhard bar.

    . 19x9.5 SVE drifts. 275/40-19 square

    . Corbeau seats and GT500 wheel.

    . Steeda jacking rails , which make life so much easier.

    Local track is PIR. And the car runs hard. I do track days with the BMW club, who run a cool and safe event. Easily runs with the B group. Just not enough hp and skill to mix with the A’s. And that’s fine. So what’s going on here?

    . Brakes. This is the number one. Brakes are not at their potential. I was going to add GT500 rears, larger diameter rotors, to the mix. Also decent pads, good fluid, and some stainless lines. PIR only has two significant braking events, both from about 130 to 50 or so. I actually lost a rear axle seal last track day. And I suspect it was due to heat from the rear brakes. Any specific help appreciated. I’d prefer not to switch pads from weekend to track. I know....

    . Handling. I am actually pretty happy here. At this point, any limits are mine, and the car seems very neutral. Does that surprise anyone?

    . Inside. Seats are harness ready. I have the MM Motorsport 4.point cage on my list. And a 5 point harness. Anything I need to know or consider?

    . I am going to run this wheel/tire combo for another season. I’d like to go to a 295/35-19 square eventually. Any specific wheel thoughts (10.5”)that don’t cost a ton? And specific offset recommendations?

    Aero. No issue here. Although I like the Steeda front spoiler or perhaps the CS look. Seems like a lot of air is leaking under and around the front of these cars. Although, I can’t say I have experience any hood flutter.

    After reading this, one big takeaway is how well the car runs basically stock, with very minor mods. I picked this thing up used in the high teens $$$, but stock and babied. Tossed a few Gs at it, and it’s running with some very expensive iron at the track. Which is fun in and of itself.

    There it is dudes. Tear it up as you see fit...

    :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  2. JJ427R

    JJ427R forum member

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    We have very similar stuff/situation here so I'll give my 2 cents, but no tearing from me... ;)
    I have a 2010 Roush 427R I drive to the track... Brainerd and Road America are my two tracks..... about 3-4 events a year for me....
    Question on your rear brakes, are you turning off the Advancetrack? If you just turn off traction control it only disables something like 30% of the rear brakes, turn off the advancetrak to completely disable the traction control. I have a similar problem where I melt my rear calipers, have rebuilt/replaced them a couple times now, but I drive with hand controls and an automatic, so no downshifting ability.

    I installed a Corbeau Harness bar with Corbeau 4-points, you could probably get by with the Schroth 4 point Harness'

    Brakes I have StopTech 4 piston up front with Frozen Rotors Cry Slotted rotors. Rear are stock calipers with Roush slotted rotors. Motul Brake Fluid. StopTech lines.
    Pads I don't want to switch either so I currently run Ferodo Racing DS2500 Street/Track Pads on all 4 corners. I was recommended them by Dave Zeckhausen at Zeckhausen Racing. Any braking questions I highly recommend you give him a call https://www.zeckhausen.com/ great guy and will answer any questions you might have, never answers phone, leave a message and he will call you back... US StopTech distributor and also has Brembo stuff...

    I have 20" Roush wheels and run 275/35/20 Mickey Thompson Street Comps on all 4 corners.
    any track videos?
    Rock on....
    JJ
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  3. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter

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    Without knowing what "doesn't cost a ton" means to you, I'd go straight to 11" wide wheels, most likely Apex or Forgestar. That'll let you get more out of 305/xx when you feel you're ready for that much tire (including financially) but will still let you run 285/xx in the meantime.

    FWIW, anything over 10" wide really needs to either have slightly different offsets (front vs rear) or spacers and ARP studs for the front.


    My own "track day" set - I do run a separate street set except when I get lazy about swapping the track set out - is 285/35-18 on 18x11. 19's wouldn't be any different, except that you might think about running 5 profile points lower with 19's. Please excuse the 100+ mph bug suicides, picked up at NJMP.

    I've run Carbotech and G-loc pads, in compounds ranging from 8's to 12's year round and live with the dust and an occasional squeak. Even the 12's are reasonably gentle on the rotors, but the 10's are better still (and appear to be somewhat longer-lasting). 14" SVT/GT500 brakes up front, stock 11.8" rear. Very good cold bite even at ambient temperatures down around 20°F like it was here yesterday morning.

    Sneak Preview 800x600 web.jpg


    Yes, 285's on 11's is a mild stretch (it's a max-recommended fitment). But it's great for turn-in response and steering precision.

    28535 on 11.JPG


    I'd honestly describe myself as being an intermediate (basically HoD's Level C), though I run with the advanced group for SCCA's TNiA and a mixed advanced/instructor group at NJMP's own track days. I've made my car easy to drive hard on the track without sacrificing anything of significance from its street driving.


    Norm
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  4. 759-OR

    759-OR Junior Member

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    Thanks Norm. We have chatted on some other boards to good effect.

    Appreciate the words on wheels/tires. Let me burn through this set, and we can chat again. Apex seems the place to go to for that. I really like your setup. I really don't quite have the heart for that strut to tire clearance though. Even though I know it's great.

    Good to know that I can get away with a street and track compound. Its not that changing pads is a huge hassle. I just don't want to do it. And not sure my particular track and skill level demand it. I am actually kind of stoked to do the big rear rotor swap and see how it goes. Its super cheap and seems like a fun afternoon project.

    Our goals seem the same in that of a decent street / track car.

    I stay out of the A group because I don't want to be THAT guy. Not sure about your local group, but the straight line speed of some of those cars is crazy. Mixing blown Camaros, and real deal Champ cars with (very well driven) Miatas just doesnt seem like a good idea.
     
  5. Pentalab

    Pentalab forum member

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    Norm, kinda tough to tell from the pix, but at 1st glance, it doesn't appear that you have a lot of camber dialed in? How far inboard do you have your steeda Strut mounts adjusted ? Can you share a pix. You can only put so much neg camber on the steeda hd strut mounts, but I'm sure it's slightly more than what ur pix depicts. As far as strut to tire clearance, a slightly thicker spacer would solve that issue, like perhaps another 1-2 mm thicker...provided of course that the studs are long enough.
     
  6. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter

    Age:
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    At right around -2° it's right in the middle between a more typical performance DD setting (in the low 1.x range) and a dedicated track setup in the high 2.x's. I've been through the camber-swap-for-autocross deal before (different car), and don't care to get involved in that any more. Aim Solo datalogs are a good bit past 1.1g (I've seen 1.3x peaks, which may or may not be all that meaningful), so I'm happy enough at least for now.

    The strut mounts were pushed as far negative as they would go, offhand I'm not sure why they wouldn't go any further or what was stopping them. My driveway is flat (side to side direction) to less than 0.1°, and this picture was taken on the "low" side.

    Camber measurement by digital angle finder.jpg


    Norm
     
  7. 759-OR

    759-OR Junior Member

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    So, the question then becomes.... Do we start to get into weird scrub radii issues as we shove the center of the wheel further away from its original location?
     
  8. stevbd

    stevbd forum member

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    759, glad you're liking the car. I have a similar setup to you, minus the seats and jacking rails and plus camber plates and the gt500 rear brakes. I run 275/40/18 square MPSS on Apex rims. For context I comfortably run mid-pack in advanced groups at recreational HPDE days, typical 20-25 minute sessions. The car is generally a little faster than a stock-ish e9x m3, and pretty similar if they've done some mods. A couple thoughts:

    Brakes. Maybe think some more about swapping pads. There really is no "good everywhere" brake pad. And the front pads on the Brembo calipers are incredibly easy to swap out. I use G-Loc (old carbotech compounds) pads on the track and oem on the street. The track pads are just so much fun on track. Awesome bite, no fade whatsoever at the fairly moderate speeds I'm going, and you can just dive bomb corners, it's so much fun.

    On the rear I just use the oem gt500 pads and don't bother swapping them because that is a lot more effort and I'm not racing. Honestly, I didn't notice any difference behind the wheel when I swapped these in. Like you I had a leaking axle seal, was noticing increased rear pad wear and was worried about excess heat, and it was an easy and cheap upgrade "while I was in there."

    Suspension. I have the same springs and dampers as you but with the Vorshlag camber plates. They are excellent. On the advice of Vorshlag I aligned it at -1.5 camber and zero toe for the street with the camber plates in their most upright position. Then for track days you just put in all the camber you can (probably comes out to about -3 degrees, give or take). Takes 10 minutes if you're slow. You get way more front grip and when you dial in the camber you also create toe out, which gives you awesome turn in. The front end just bites and sticks, which is really nice. As a bonus you get far less front tire shoulder wear. Combined with rotating the tires, assuming square setup, you get a lot more life out of your tires.

    Concerning tires and wheels, no doubt nothing helps lower your lap times more than finding the biggest and stickiest tires you can. But to me this is kind of a slippery slope, requiring a lot of investment in the surrounding systems to keep the car balanced and safe with the increased grip. Brake cooling, oiling, maybe an oil pan baffle to stay safe with increased g's, harnesses, harness bar, etc. For me right now, this is very much a year round daily driver. So I'm staying where I am and having fun sliding around a bit with the skinny 275 street tires. But no doubt, if you really want to go faster you need bigger and better tires first and foremost.

    Good luck and have fun.
     
  9. 759-OR

    759-OR Junior Member

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    OK, good to know my driving doesn't suck that bad. As that is where I land with respect to more "common" track day cars. The M BMWs are usually very close in my group. The E9xs are usually off the back (although as a previous 330ci owner, they can handle VERY well), the F3x can run hard if they have more boost tuned in.

    The advanced group here is filled with: Z-28s, ZL1s, an actual Champ Car, GT3, etc... Those are just in a different universe from my car (and my driving) and I don't want to be the rolling roadblock. The best one at the last HPDE was an LS swapped E30. Think on THAT one for a bit...
     
  10. stevbd

    stevbd forum member

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    Well as the saying goes if someone is faster than you they're either better or richer and sometimes both.

    In our area there's a guy with an e30 with a v10 swap out of a recent m5. Very cool setup.
     
  11. 759-OR

    759-OR Junior Member

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    OK. You win.

    An LS swap with its huge knowledge base is one thing.

    But the electronic sorcery that must have been involved with that V10 swap.... I am speechless.

    How did the chassis handle it? Stockish inside? Tube framed?

    I kept asking the dude with the LS swapped unit (he did the 6 speed auto trans as well) how well everything else was holding up. Imagining diffs and axles and wheel ends exploding everywhere.
     
  12. stevbd

    stevbd forum member

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    OK, your questions have got me doubting myself. It may have been an e39 m5 v8. It was cool regardless, definitely a bmw swap. I didn't get a chance to really study it. I didn't ask questions but the guy wasn't as fast as the setup sounds in print. He may have just been taking it easy. Whatever the details, it was a much bigger and heavier engine in the nose of a small car whose chassis isn't really that great for bigger power to begin with.