Difference between Torsen T-2 and T-2R????

[stixx2002]

Hi all. Trying to increase my knowledge regarding differentials and was curious if anyone know what the primary "real world" differences are between the t2 and T2R.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kenaizer]

Taken from http://www.torsen.com/products/products.htm


"The T-2R is a higher bias T-2 torque sensing parallel axis differential designed for the more performance minded driver. The higher bias found in the T-2R, like the T-1, allows the transfer of more available torque to the wheel that can better use it."

Also, http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110445&highlight=Torsen

 

[stixx2002]

So would you choose one over the other based solely on HP needs or driving style as well?

 

[fdjizm]

The T2 has a bias ratio of 2.1:1 whereas the T2R has a 4:1 ratio.
And I have no idea what that means

 

[Kenaizer]

So would you choose one over the other based solely on HP needs or driving style as well?

What do you want to do with the car?

 

[Clipboard]

The T2 has a bias ratio of 2.1:1 whereas the T2R has a 4:1 ratio.
And I have no idea what that means

wouldnt it be like changing your ring and pinion from 3.55 to 4.10? (on a lower scale)

 

[Eel Mit]

wouldnt it be like changing your ring and pinion from 3.55 to 4.10? (on a lower scale)

No, the ratio they quote for Torsens has to do with how aggressively the power is transferred from the spinning wheel to the other side that gets traction. The more aggressive ratios act more like a spool and less like an open diff.

 

[stixx2002]

What do you want to do with the car?

Daily driver which occasionally sees track

 

[Kenaizer]

Daily driver which occasionally sees track

What type of track do you plan on going to? Strip, or road course?

 

[stixx2002]

What type of track do you plan on going to? Strip, or road course?

Strip

 

[Dubstep Shep]

The T2 has a bias ratio of 2.1:1 whereas the T2R has a 4:1 ratio.
And I have no idea what that means

The bias ratio is how much more torque it is capable of transferring to one wheel over another.

Basically if you had 300 ft lb and a 2:1 bias, the most one wheel would ever see is 200, and the least would be 100. If that bias were changed to 4:1, now the max would be 240, and the min 60. Basically the bias ratio is the "range" at which the diff can operate.



Also, my understanding was that all torson differentials act like an open diff (within the constraints of the bias) when one wheel loses traction; that wheel receives more power. Contrast that to a T-2R, where the power is put to the wheel with traction. This is because the T-2R has a preloaded clutch in it, where as the T-2 does not.

 

[Whiskey11]

The bias ratio is how much more torque it is capable of transferring to one wheel over another.

Basically if you had 300 ft lb and a 2:1 bias, the most one wheel would ever see is 200, and the least would be 100. If that bias were changed to 4:1, now the max would be 240, and the min 60. Basically the bias ratio is the "range" at which the diff can operate.



Also, my understanding was that all torson differentials act like an open diff (within the constraints of the bias) when one wheel loses traction; that wheel receives more power. Contrast that to a T-2R, where the power is put to the wheel with traction. This is because the T-2R has a preloaded clutch in it, where as the T-2 does not.

The Torsen T2R does not have any clutch packs in it to add pre-load. It has steel wear pucks that are used to increase the bias ratio but if you unload a T2R sufficiently it will behave exactly like an open differential just like the T2 does.

You are exactly right about the bias ratio though. Basically the T2R provides for a larger difference in wheel speed between the inside and outside wheels. So much so that the T2R is superior in every regard for autocross performance.

As for which would I chose for the strip? How about neither. The shock loads from hard launches sends the worm gears into the pockets they are in with a lot of force. This puts a HUGE amount of stress on the differential case and the worm gears which causes them to fail. ALL gear diffs have this problem and while the TruTrac has a "good" record in drag strip use it is still misuse of the differential. If you want a streetable drag racing setup, rebuild your T-Lok or go with a clutch based differential to replace the T-Lok but DO NOT go with a gear diff for drag racing. You are asking to grenade the rear end at every launch you make.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

The Torsen T2R does not have any clutch packs in it to add pre-load. It has steel wear pucks that are used to increase the bias ratio but if you unload a T2R sufficiently it will behave exactly like an open differential just like the T2 does.

From the Torsen website...
"The TORSEN T2-R takes the T-2's performance to the next level. By combining the patented Equvex gearing from the TORSEN T-2 with friction enhancing plates, the T-2R allows improved mobility an traction under the most extreme conditions."

Seems like a "clutch" and "friction enhancing plate" are essentially the same thing.

Additionally, here is a diagram from the same page on the Torsen website

In that picture, I see a part labeled "multi plate clutches" and another "preload springs." So it would seem the T-2R does in fact use a preloaded clutch system exactly as I described.

As for which would I chose for the strip? How about neither. The shock loads from hard launches sends the worm gears into the pockets they are in with a lot of force. This puts a HUGE amount of stress on the differential case and the worm gears which causes them to fail. ALL gear diffs have this problem and while the TruTrac has a "good" record in drag strip use it is still misuse of the differential. If you want a streetable drag racing setup, rebuild your T-Lok or go with a clutch based differential to replace the T-Lok but DO NOT go with a gear diff for drag racing. You are asking to grenade the rear end at every launch you make.

Agreed 110%. A locker or a limited slip are the best choices for the strip. Torsen differentials are terrible for hard launches.

 

[fdjizm]

Gotta get the memo to my trutrac ASAP!
"Dearest trutrac, you're not supposed to be alive.
Sincerely, Daddy."

 

[Whiskey11]

From the Torsen website...
"The TORSEN T2-R takes the T-2's performance to the next level. By combining the patented Equvex gearing from the TORSEN T-2 with friction enhancing plates, the T-2R allows improved mobility an traction under the most extreme conditions."

Seems like a "clutch" and "friction enhancing plate" are essentially the same thing.

Additionally, here is a diagram from the same page on the Torsen website

In that picture, I see a part labeled "multi plate clutches" and another "preload springs." So it would seem the T-2R does in fact use a preloaded clutch system exactly as I described.



Agreed 110%. A locker or a limited slip are the best choices for the strip. Torsen differentials are terrible for hard launches.

Yeah, I know about their definition on their webpage and it's been proven time and time again to be a load of hooey. If you get a tire light enough with a T2R it will fry the inside tire as bad as a T2 will. Nothing "special" about it other than the higher bias ratio making it far more difficult to get that tire light enough to fry it.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Yeah, I know about their definition on their webpage and it's been proven time and time again to be a load of hooey. If you get a tire light enough with a T2R it will fry the inside tire as bad as a T2 will. Nothing "special" about it other than the higher bias ratio making it far more difficult to get that tire light enough to fry it.

Lol whatever you say man.

Maybe Torsen should hire you to design their differentials from now on.

 

[Kenaizer]

Lol whatever you say man.

Maybe Torsen should hire you to design their differentials from now on.

I think he's just saying that, from the real world results he has seen, their description doesn't seem to be as accurate as it should.

Pissing match (which you seem to live for, regardless of the result) aside, the OP really should be doing his own research, because the information is readily available on this site.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I think he's just saying that, from the real world results he has seen, their description doesn't seem to be as accurate as it should.

Effectiveness of the system aside, the T-R2 uses a preloaded clutch system.

Anyone that says otherwise is arguing with Torsen, not me.

 

[stixx2002]

Pissing match (which you seem to live for, regardless of the result) aside, the OP really should be doing his own research, because the information is readily available on this site.

Fair enough. Thank all for the feedback.

 

[fdjizm]

I think he's just saying that, from the real world results he has seen, their description doesn't seem to be as accurate as it should.

Wouldn't that be the case for the truetrac as well?
From real world experience it works fine for drag racing.