Electrical Insanity w/ codes P0316 P0401 P0443 P0480 P0645

[Poinga]

I got a 2010 V6 Premium Pony Pkg in December last year for $1000. Previous owner just didn't have a use for it and it was sitting. For 5 of the 8 months I've had it, I've had no a/c. For the past 3 or 4 months, it's been running poorly and will often die at idle only to start back up completely fine.
So far I've done a lot of electrical work replacing the battery negative terminal and a significant portion of corroded wire. I've also redone every single ground, including the one that goes the the engine block (which was painfully difficult).
The worst part about all of this is that when I finished that engine ground, the car was PERFECT for 2 weeks until the CEL came on. It wasn't long after that when the other problems started to persist. I just redid the grounds again today and checked voltages, fuses, etc. I noticed that the battery voltage with the car running is only 13.2v which points to either a week alternator or, in my opinion, something sucking up way more power than it should. I don't know though.
In the attached video link I have a few more details. If anyone has any ideas they'd be appreciated because I'm very close to scrapping this thing and buying another Focus.

Also, the relays and fuses are all confirmed good and working.
Also also, the radiator fan works just fine.

 

[DieHarder]

Your low voltage symptoms point toward bad grounds. To check get a VOM (Volt/Ohm meter) and test for voltage drops (with engine running) from the main body ground to the body of the alternator. If you read voltage the grounds are the most likely suspect. If an NOS battery cable harness is still available it'd be worth replacing.

For more information see: Finally found the cause of my low voltage - Beware the all important grounds.

 

[DieHarder]

I got a 2010 V6 Premium Pony Pkg in December last year for $1000. Previous owner just didn't have a use for it and it was sitting. For 5 of the 8 months I've had it, I've had no a/c. For the past 3 or 4 months, it's been running poorly and will often die at idle only to start back up completely fine.
So far I've done a lot of electrical work replacing the battery negative terminal and a significant portion of corroded wire. I've also redone every single ground, including the one that goes the the engine block (which was painfully difficult).
The worst part about all of this is that when I finished that engine ground, the car was PERFECT for 2 weeks until the CEL came on. It wasn't long after that when the other problems started to persist. I just redid the grounds again today and checked voltages, fuses, etc. I noticed that the battery voltage with the car running is only 13.2v which points to either a week alternator or, in my opinion, something sucking up way more power than it should. I don't know though.
In the attached video link I have a few more details. If anyone has any ideas they'd be appreciated because I'm very close to scrapping this thing and buying another Focus.

Also, the relays and fuses are all confirmed good and working.
Also also, the radiator fan works just fine.

View attachment 109516

View attachment 109517

Your low voltage symptoms point toward bad grounds. To check get a VOM (Volt/Ohm meter) and test for voltage drops (with engine running) from the main body ground to the body of the alternator. If you read voltage the grounds are the most likely suspect. If an NOS battery cable harness is still available it'd be worth replacing.

For more information see: Finally found the cause of my low voltage - Beware the all important grounds.

 

[Poinga]

Hey there friend. I really appreciate your response, I've been working all day and only was now able to get to this. The battery negative terminal bolts were loose, So was my relocated ground. I tried tightening the ground and ended up detaching the capital nut on the underside of the fender. Ended up installing a new 4gau ground cable back to the strut tower.
I also installed a new battery terminal, but I need to replace it because it's a slightly too-large one. I did your test and the number was originally about .3 it is now .1 and the a/c does try engaging sometimes. Under a heavy load (sound system, glass heater, headlights), the alternator is only outputting about 11.9 volts and 12.44 with a smaller load of just the headlights and sound system. Could my alternator be weak?

 

[Pentalab]

Hey there friend. I really appreciate your response, I've been working all day and only was now able to get to this. The battery negative terminal bolts were loose, So was my relocated ground. I tried tightening the ground and ended up detaching the capital nut on the underside of the fender. Ended up installing a new 4gau ground cable back to the strut tower.
I also installed a new battery terminal, but I need to replace it because it's a slightly too-large one. I did your test and the number was originally about .3 it is now .1 and the a/c does try engaging sometimes. Under a heavy load (sound system, glass heater, headlights), the alternator is only outputting about 11.9 volts and 12.44 with a smaller load of just the headlights and sound system. Could my alternator be weak?

I have 12.4 vdc across my battery terminals with eng off. And 14.7 vdc across the battery terminals...with eng on idle. It's 14.7 vdc, regardless of what's turned on. If all ur wiring and grnds are ok, I would say your alternator is toast.

 

[Poinga]

So here's an update. I'm going to give up on this car. I really need to have a dependable vehicle while I'm away from home for the past couple months and one more for work. I got this mustang in a really good work deal and I would break even on it getting rid of it for a thousand bucks. I've spent dozens of hours trying to diagnose what's wrong with this thing and I'm just getting a "little" sick and tired of it. I want to be greedy and try fixing it so that it's worth way more when I sell it, but I feel like Id get way too deep in that hole after everything I've already done to this car. Really appreciate you guys responding

 

[Pentalab]

P0316 = Engine Misfire Detected on Startup (First 1000 Revolutions)
P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected
P0443 Evaporative Emission System Purge Control Valve Circuit
P0480 Fan 1 Control Circuit
P0645 A/C Clutch Relay Control Circuit

CHECK the vdc across the battery terminals !! should be 12.2 to 12.6 vdc with eng OFF. And 14.5 to 14.7 vdc with eng ON....and idling. If you are not seeing 14.5 to 14.7 vdc across the battery terminals with eng ON....and idling, your alternator is fucked.

With eng ON...and idling, switch DVM (digital voltmeter) to AC volts. You should read no more than 20-50 MILLIVOLTS. IF u see way more than that, you have one or more bad diodes inside the alternator. With one or more shorted diodes inside the alternator, you will be pumping raw AC into the battery....which will trash it eventually.

You need rock solid connections everywhere. Put Permatex dielectric grease on the battery terminals before installing the connectors. Ditto with all other grnds etc. Ditto with all connections to alternator.

You are almost there with the fix.

 

[Poinga]

If it's a simple test like that, I will hold off on scrapping for a little while longer then.
I work away from home for about a week at a time. On the way back this week, I pulled into a Walmart and by the time I got back, the car was completely dead. When I got to the parking lot, it died and wouldn't restart. Very fun navigating a parking lot with almost no brakes and definitely no power steering.
My friend was able to jump it and she ran for about 30s on her own power. I will do your test and update here. Thank you for your reply

 

[Poinga]

Update: I installed a new battery terminal. When I got back to the car today the battery was at 0.01v. Thankfully it's a new-ish battery, so I was able to get a new one under warranty at Walmart .
That had enough charge to get me to oreillys where the worker and I smelled something before noticing literal smoke coming off of the alternator.
Replaced the alternator with an oreillys one (way overpriced of course). Now seeing 13.5v
Unfortunately, the PCM isn't communicating with the alternator "check charging system" appears any time I do something more demanding than turning my headlights on.
So, the car is commanding 14.5v and the alternator won't give us more than 13.5.
Tomorrow, I'm going to get a refund, then my friend and I are going to install a used/ junkyard alternator that's better than the remanufactured junk these scam artist are selling for about half the price. Will update once that's done.
Also, I did make sure that all of my grounds are still reading at my multimeters baseline resistance, so those are good.

 

[DieHarder]

Update: I installed a new battery terminal. When I got back to the car today the battery was at 0.01v. Thankfully it's a new-ish battery, so I was able to get a new one under warranty at Walmart .
That had enough charge to get me to oreillys where the worker and I smelled something before noticing literal smoke coming off of the alternator.
Replaced the alternator with an oreillys one (way overpriced of course). Now seeing 13.5v
Unfortunately, the PCM isn't communicating with the alternator "check charging system" appears any time I do something more demanding than turning my headlights on.
So, the car is commanding 14.5v and the alternator won't give us more than 13.5.
Tomorrow, I'm going to get a refund, then my friend and I are going to install a used/ junkyard alternator that's better than the remanufactured junk these scam artist are selling for about half the price. Will update once that's done.
Also, I did make sure that all of my grounds are still reading at my multimeters baseline resistance, so those are good.

Find an alternator shop to get an alternator. They're really the only one's who can tell you if they're any good or not. Second, might be worth spending a diagnostic fee (~$200) at a dealer to get a solution to what the problem is. I'd wager it's your battery cables/alternator. They can build up internal resistance after a number of years. If you see green patina on them time it's time to replace them.. If they're still available it's worth replacing them. Get original Motorcraft. Third, I would add an extra ground (4 ga) and run it from one of the mounting bolts for the alternator to the main ground on the passenger strut tower. That will ensure the electrical system is at true ground end to end.

Looks like a nice car for only a grand. As Pentalab says you're almost there. Not fun dealing with electrical problems but worth it in the end.

 

[Poinga]

I am returning this one to o Reilly's and I ordered a used one from a parts car that should be here in a couple days. We'll see what happens when that goes in. If I have to do too much more, it's getting scrapped.

 

[86GT351]

You are ging to put a Used Alternator in? I would bet on a less than stellar result.

 

[Poinga]

I have a less than stellar budget. If the car can communicate with it and it doesn't go up in flames like the original one, it should be fine. If not, I'll only be out 60 bucks and the car can go to the crusher.

 

[Pentalab]

I have a less than stellar budget. If the car can communicate with it and it doesn't go up in flames like the original one, it should be fine. If not, I'll only be out 60 bucks and the car can go to the crusher.

The 2010 alternator is superb vs the 05-09 alternators. You are nuts to send it to the crusher. It's a 1/2 hr fix at best.

 

[Poinga]

It's an alternator from a 2010 car if the listing is correct. I'm tired of putting money into this car and I desperately need a reliable vehicle for work. I don't kind having a fix or repair daily as a secondary or fun car like the Focus back home, but while I'm away for work I expect my car to at least run and drive. I'm really burnt out on late-night diagnostics, forum-scraping, and multimeter-holding. I've spent dozens of hours diagnosing this thing and chasing engine codes. For 5 of the 8 months I've owned it I haven't had any air conditioning and it's been consistently 90+ degrees and 90-100% humidity here in Texas. It's beyond miserable. The local scrapyard offered about a grand for it and they'll come get it at any day/ time of my request. I got it for a thousand bucks, I'll be happy to get a thousand out of it considering I've done 10k+ miles.
If the used alternator cannot save this car, I will be calling the scrapyard.

 

[Poinga]

As for the A/C, yes I am aware the code is for the relay circuit. It has a confirmed working relay and the issue is a lack of system voltage overhead. In summary, redoing every single ground down to 0-3 ohms of resistance fixed my problems for a week. After that, every problem came back. From there, I did serious PCM diagnostic work and all signs were pointing to a failing PCM. Finally, the alternator started smoking and a new one did allow me to engage air conditioning for the first time in a while before CHECK CHARGING SYSTEM appeared in the dash. The car-side connector has battery and command voltage.
I am absolutely not going to fork over a grand for dealership diagnostic, a used PCM, and then dealership programming to get it working. I'd rather keep my money and move on.

 

[DieHarder]

You said: I've done a lot of electrical work replacing the battery negative terminal and a significant portion of corroded wire. I've also redone every single ground, including the one that goes the the engine block (which was painfully difficult). Q: Did you replace the wiring or just clean the ends?

The lack of overhead voltage is due to what's known as a floating ground. That essentially means the ground reference the alternator sees isn't the same as body ground. This is most often caused by cabling resistance (provided your alternator is good) due to corrosion/contact points/or a combination of issues that drop voltage leaving less voltage to power the system. To check if that's the case simply perform a voltage drop (using a Volt/Ohm Meter on Volts DC with the engine running). Place one lead on the body of the alternator and the other lead on the main body ground on the passenger strut tower. If you read voltage the grounds are the issue. This isn't the same as an Ohms check. Besides, if you're getting anything higher than 0.xxxx ohms with an ohms check it's likely that cabling needs to be replaced. A new battery/charging cabling harness usually isn't too much if you can find them.

The other way to fix it (cheaper) is when you install the alternator add a separate ground wire from the body of the alternator (usually one of the mounting bolts) and run it to the ground on the passenger strut tower. That will ensure the ground potential of the system is the same from end to end. This should improve the voltage output of the alternator. And, it won't cost more than about $20. You can pick up 4 ga wire and a couple of eyelets at any hardware store. You can either solder the ends with a torch or crimp them with a hammer and punch. Get about 3 - 4 ft thick stranded copper wire (black covering). Also, when you get the alternator highly recommend taking it to an alternator shop to get it tested before you install it.

For more information see: Finally found the cause of my low voltage - Beware the all important grounds.

 

[Poinga]

I will try this when the 'new' one gets delivered. Expedited shipping paid for and they shipped it snail mail with USPS so who knows if it'll even arrive. I was going to order a cheaper alternator anyways because I way am I parting with so much money when I could just get a used one.
Anyways, Walmart does sell 4gau wire with preinstalled ends. I used one for the new battery ground. I will also try installing one on the alternator before turning the car on.
For the battery cabling that I replaced, a significant portion of the battery negative cable was gangrene green and I replaced that.
Also, I have the cheapest little harbor freight multimeter and its baseline is like 2 ohms lol.
I'll update again once the 'new' part arrives.

 

[DieHarder]

I will try this when the 'new' one gets delivered. Expedited shipping paid for and they shipped it snail mail with USPS so who knows if it'll even arrive. I was going to order a cheaper alternator anyways because I way am I parting with so much money when I could just get a used one.
Anyways, Walmart does sell 4gau wire with preinstalled ends. I used one for the new battery ground. I will also try installing one on the alternator before turning the car on.
For the battery cabling that I replaced, a significant portion of the battery negative cable was gangrene green and I replaced that.
Also, I have the cheapest little harbor freight multimeter and its baseline is like 2 ohms lol.
I'll update again once the 'new' part arrives.

Since you found corrosion it's highly likely your battery cabling (both pos/neg) are shot. Finding a new OEM replacement may be challenging but would be the best option to fix your alternator/battery issue. The extra ground should help in the meantime. I would not use Walmart. Go to HD/Lowes/etc and pick up a 3 - 4 ft section of 4 ga copper wire (black covering) and eyelets. About the same price but better for what you need it for. Be sure to get the new alternator tested at an alternator shop. You want to be certain it works before installing it. Otherwise, you're just chasing ghosts.

Regarding the multimeter. You should be able to get a decent one on feebay for $20.. Will come in handy when troubleshooting in the future.

Best Regards,

 

[Juice]

Nothing wrong with good used parts. I got an alternator from the local yard (I was in a pinch), it was the best $25 I ever spent. lol

Unless you have 12.5v or better with the engine off, your battery is either bad or atleast discharged. Should actually be 12.6v or better on a fully charged battery.