Help me out w/ suspension

[Sky Render]

We already told you those 55D springs are going to suck.

 

[Jeremy@AirLift]

How do you dampen the rebound? Do you just have to absorb it all in bump so there is little rebound left? I see where it says your system can monitor and adjust psi on the fly, but unless it creates suction on rebound, I have a hard time seeing that dampen good. What is your target? Corner-Carver section on here isn't about being able to slam your car when you park it and then raise it back up when you're ready to go (although that is neat). The one thing I do see being easy is corner-weighting. Just sit in the car and push buttons lol.

Not really sure what you are trying to get at, but an air bag is nothing more than a progressive rate spring. Rebound damping is achieved through adjustment knobs just like you would find on a high end set of coil-overs. Our struts are 30 damping adjustable so you can fine tune the ride quality and handling performance to your liking. Our company car see's regular track use and will hold it's own against any coil-over equipped Mustang. Our systems are not designed just to be "neat" our kits are designed to be beat up at the track, then drive home in comfort. Trust me I feel right at home in the corner carving section!

Check out some of our track videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysvNlhxGBiI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5SHzgaMrBI

Let me know if you have any questions

 

[fun4me]

Not really sure what you are trying to get at, but an air bag is nothing more than a progressive rate spring. Rebound damping is achieved through adjustment knobs just like you would find on a high end set of coil-overs. Our struts are 30 damping adjustable so you can fine tune the ride quality and handling performance to your liking. Our company car see's regular track use and will hold it's own against any coil-over equipped Mustang. Our systems are not designed just to be "neat" our kits are designed to be beat up at the track, then drive home in comfort. Trust me I feel right at home in the corner carving section!

Check out some of our track videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysvNlhxGBiI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5SHzgaMrBI

Let me know if you have any questions

Doesn't that mess w/ the rear geometry, going up and down like that?
So they go up and down, and firmness is adjusatable as well?

 

[fun4me]

We already told you those 55D springs are going to suck.

I'm just using them to get throught the winter. They will be easy to swap out in the spring.

My question was if its borderline dangerous to have a proggresive rate P spring(not sure of the exact rate) in combinbation w/ a 140ish rate linear spring?
I'm learning as I go along, and appreciate any feedback.

 

[Sky Render]

What progressive springs are you referring to?

Do you know what a helper spring is? It's a smaller spring found on some coilovers that keeps the spring from losing contact with the top and bottom perches when fully extended. The helper spring is completely compressed when the weight is on the suspension; it therefore has zero impact on the actual suspension characteristics of the vehicle.

Several springs appear to be progressive (example: Steeda Ultralites). However, the "progressive" portion of the spring merely acts as a helper spring; when the vehicle is on the ground, the usable portion of the spring is actually linear.

 

[Jeremy@AirLift]

Doesn't that mess w/ the rear geometry, going up and down like that?
So they go up and down, and firmness is adjusatable as well?

It does not mess with the rear geometry at all. We still run the stock panhard bar on our car with out any issue.

Yes height and firmness are both adjustable. You can drive the car low when you want and push a button to clear speed bumps. You can set the ride height to be a little higher in the winter, then go to a lower ride height in the summer.

 

[Sky Render]

I beg to differ. Raising and lowering the car will change the rear lower control arm angles, which most assuredly affects handling. it also changes the bump steer characteristics up front.

 

[sheizasosay]

Not really sure what you are trying to get at, but an air bag is nothing more than a progressive rate spring. Rebound damping is achieved through adjustment knobs just like you would find on a high end set of coil-overs. Our struts are 30 damping adjustable so you can fine tune the ride quality and handling performance to your liking. Our company car see's regular track use and will hold it's own against any coil-over equipped Mustang. Our systems are not designed just to be "neat" our kits are designed to be beat up at the track, then drive home in comfort. Trust me I feel right at home in the corner carving section!

Check out some of our track videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysvNlhxGBiI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5SHzgaMrBI

Let me know if you have any questions

My apologies. I had a misconception about your product. I thought it had no damper. I thought it was a bladder with a compressor and controller. I watched a video and read a few things, but it only mentioned that it adjusts pressure on the fly and the control display can be displayed in 500 colors and that it can show "bars" now not just "psi" so you can show your friends in Europe or whatever. I never got to that other info (until your reply). I would like to ride in a car with that suspension and check it out. I just don't know anyone with it. Sorry again for my misunderstanding about your product.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fun4me]

It does not mess with the rear geometry at all. We still run the stock panhard bar on our car with out any issue.

Yes height and firmness are both adjustable. You can drive the car low when you want and push a button to clear speed bumps. You can set the ride height to be a little higher in the winter, then go to a lower ride height in the summer.

Thats kind of contradictory to how these cars are designed. Unless you have a set height that all performance driving will be done at, and the rest of the height settings are just for show. Which I'm sure would work fine for some people. But I would like an exlanation of how the car can be slammed w/o changing pinion angle, etc.

 

[Roadracer350]

I beg to differ. Raising and lowering the car will change the rear lower control arm angles, which most assuredly affects handling. it also changes the bump steer characteristics up front.

Dont you want a flat controll arm angle?

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Jeremy, could you expand on "30 way adjustable shocks" for me. Who builds them for you or are you doing them in house. One knob does it all then? Are you adjusting compression and rebound at the same time?

A spring is a spring, it doesn't matter if it is rod wound up in a coil or a bag of air, it will hold the car up and soak up bumps. The difference is how they react. So if shocks are important in a coil spring application, they are REALLY important with air springs.

You guys were fast around Gingerman at the Motorstate challenge, but autocross? My wife had you covered by 6 seconds in her lowered 5.0. Better practice going around those cones, we'll be back this summer and try to make up the time on the "big boy course"

 

[Sky Render]

Dont you want a flat controll arm angle?

It depends on how you want the car to handle. Having the control arm parallel to the ground provides a measure of roll understeer, which may make the car feel more "stable." What you don't want is having the control arms slope up towards the rear axle. That causes a ton of roll understeer and severely reduces traction.

Lowering a car will always make the control arms slope upwards towards the rear axle, and the more you lower it the worse that angle will be. So, if you have stock control arms without geometry correction, the roll steer characteristics get worse and worse the more the car is lowered.

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_arti...ptimizing-weight-transfer-and-roll-steer.aspx

 

[claudermilk]

Custom off-set, I hope they fit. I saw them test-fitted on 2 cars, before I bought them.
I want to try running them, and I'll share my experience w/ all of you once I do.
I might go and test fit them soon, just to sure before I buy 600 bucks worthof tires.

Does anybody think that I'll have any adverse handeling characteristics by using the soft 55D spring in combination w/ the P springs, on my winter setup?

On the sway-bar which holes are full soft?

Any tips for installing the Yellows on the front? I'm thinking about doing it myself. The swaybars seem pretty straighforward, as well as the Panhard and the rear shocks.

What height and strenght jack-stands are good for these cars? Jack?

I read somewhere that the Steeda adjustable UCA loosens up, is that an issue I should be aware of before buying the LCA, Brackets, and UCA from steeda? My idea was to go w/ the Non-adjustable Lca, bracket and adjustable UCA.

Back to your questions.

I wouldn't mix spring setes now knowing their specs. I suspect the handling might get strange. I'd wait & do it right.

For installing the front struts, it should be pretty straightforward. You will need a spring compressor, which you should be able to borrow at the local auto parts store. Beware of the strut mounts--they are apparently really touchy & can fall apart on you, do some searches on the forum about that. I'm going off many posts I've read as I have not yet lowered.

Any normal floor jack & jack stand should work fine. I'm using basic Sears jackstands & a Harbor Freight floor jack & they work with no issue--though getting a good spot to lift the car can be a PITA.

 

[Napoleon85]

Back to your questions.

I wouldn't mix spring setes now knowing their specs. I suspect the handling might get strange. I'd wait & do it right.

For installing the front struts, it should be pretty straightforward. You will need a spring compressor, which you should be able to borrow at the local auto parts store. Beware of the strut mounts--they are apparently really touchy & can fall apart on you, do some searches on the forum about that. I'm going off many posts I've read as I have not yet lowered.

Any normal floor jack & jack stand should work fine. I'm using basic Sears jackstands & a Harbor Freight floor jack & they work with no issue--though getting a good spot to lift the car can be a PITA.

Yep, the stock strut mounts are terrible, and also very cheap. Go to your dealership and have a pair in hand before taking the old ones off. Even if they do go back on, they will probably start popping and getting sloppy sooner than later.

Also, DO NOT get the spring compressor from Harbor Freight. That thing is a pile of shit and catastrophically failed on me while decompressing the spring. The threads stripped and the damn thing went flying! Thank God nobody was hurt.

 

[claudermilk]

Same thing happened to my brother in law and I working on a differnet car. The Harbor Freight one is best used only as a hammer--it is a dangerous POS used as a spring compressor.

 

[fun4me]

I have HD mounts(steeda).
So P springs in the front and stock rate 55D in the rear will be a problem? I though that you want a softer spring in the rear, as all of the mustangs come from the factory that way.

I heard its best to do the top strut nut w/ a impact, because the shaft will spin if done by hand.

I appreciate you guys getting back on topic.

 

[Roadracer350]

It depends on how you want the car to handle. Having the control arm parallel to the ground provides a measure of roll understeer, which may make the car feel more "stable." What you don't want is having the control arms slope up towards the rear axle. That causes a ton of roll understeer and severely reduces traction.

Lowering a car will always make the control arms slope upwards towards the rear axle, and the more you lower it the worse that angle will be. So, if you have stock control arms without geometry correction, the roll steer characteristics get worse and worse the more the car is lowered.

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_arti...ptimizing-weight-transfer-and-roll-steer.aspx

That's what I was thinking. I have coils and i'm getting the White line RLCA and relocation brackets that way I can put them flat or maybe just a hair pointing away. I knew them pointing up was WAY bad juju!

 

[Kobie]

Steeda runs a 315/35/20 on an 11" rim out back with a 62mm offset and a 275/35/20 on a 9.5" rim in the front with 45mm offset. Maybe they might be able to advise about fitment and what they have done to balance the handling using a staggered wheel/tire setup???

 

[Sky Render]

I have HD mounts(steeda).
So P springs in the front and stock rate 55D in the rear will be a problem? I though that you want a softer spring in the rear, as all of the mustangs come from the factory that way.

Yes, the rear springs are softer, because they don't have an engine sitting on them. No, you should not increase the front spring rate without a corresponding increase in rear spring rate, unless you want your car to understeer worse than a Subaru.

 

[Jeremy@AirLift]

I beg to differ. Raising and lowering the car will change the rear lower control arm angles, which most assuredly affects handling. it also changes the bump steer characteristics up front.

I do apologize, I was talking about when the vehicle is all the way lowered, the geometry does change through out the height range, but it doesn't matter because you can't drive that low anyway. I drive our Mustang about 1 1/2" below stock with nothing else changed on the suspension besides a rear Helwig sway bar.

My apologies. I had a misconception about your product. I thought it had no damper. I thought it was a bladder with a compressor and controller. I watched a video and read a few things, but it only mentioned that it adjusts pressure on the fly and the control display can be displayed in 500 colors and that it can show "bars" now not just "psi" so you can show your friends in Europe or whatever. I never got to that other info (until your reply). I would like to ride in a car with that suspension and check it out. I just don't know anyone with it. Sorry again for my misunderstanding about your product.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not a problem, that is why I am here. There are a ton of misconceptions out there about air suspension. We have had the engineers from Ford SVT driving the car on a racetrack recently, they get in the car skeptics and get out believers. The car is currently getting ready to tour the west coast, let me know where you are located and maybe we can get together for a ride and drive. I will also be driving the car to Mustang Week again and various other shows around the U.S. Here is a better link to the suspension http://www.airliftperformance.com/applications/domestics/ford-mustang-performance-suspension/

Thats kind of contradictory to how these cars are designed. Unless you have a set height that all performance driving will be done at, and the rest of the height settings are just for show. Which I'm sure would work fine for some people. But I would like an exlanation of how the car can be slammed w/o changing pinion angle, etc.

When fully slammed the pinion angle does changes, but it doesn't matter because the car does will not roll anyway.

You are correct, you do select a desired ride height for everyday use. BUT the nice thing is, the ride is way better than traditional lowering springs and you don't need to worry about scraping the bottom of your car on everything. With a touch of a button you can get over any speed bump or steep driveway without damaging ground effects or exhaust.

You can beat up on the car at the track, change the air pressure and damping and have a comfortable ride home.

Jeremy, could you expand on "30 way adjustable shocks" for me. Who builds them for you or are you doing them in house. One knob does it all then? Are you adjusting compression and rebound at the same time?

A spring is a spring, it doesn't matter if it is rod wound up in a coil or a bag of air, it will hold the car up and soak up bumps. The difference is how they react. So if shocks are important in a coil spring application, they are REALLY important with air springs.

You guys were fast around Gingerman at the Motorstate challenge, but autocross? My wife had you covered by 6 seconds in her lowered 5.0. Better practice going around those cones, we'll be back this summer and try to make up the time on the "big boy course"

Our suspension components are built by a high end coil-over company. Rebound and compression are adjusted at the same time, but with proportionally more rebound. Our parts also weigh about 4 pounds less per corner than factory parts.

Your wife had me covered by 6 seconds because it was my very first autocross! I have always been a drag race guy so turning corners and trying to get through cones was completely new to me. If you are in Michigan, get with me, I would be more than happy to show you what the car is capable of.

Thanks for the questions guys, keep them coming!!