How to check if one timing chain jumped

[Brick]

I'm midway through my hot rod cam install on my 2005. I've only worked on the driver side so far... haven't touched the passenger side.

I had trouble getting the driver side phaser back on the new hot rod camshaft. Like an idiot, I pulled out the wedge to try and get a little more slack to work with. I was able to get the phaser back on, but I thought I felt the the chain possibly jump a tooth at the crank sprocket.

Knowing the passenger side is still good... is there any way to check and be sure the timing is correct on the driver side without pulling the front cover? I read somewhere that the timing marks should line up every 37 revolutions of the engine... could that help?

Thanks for any advice or experience.

The picture below is the driver side phaser as it is now, with the crank pulley at 6 o'clock, and the timing mark on the crank pulley at 7 o'clock.

 

[Wes06]

if theres a question of the timing jumping, the only thing to do is pull the cover and redo the timing.

Correct the marks only line up every <insert some stupid number here> and just turning over the motor means absolutely dick when you can only see the phaser side of the chain

 

[07 Boss]

Yep, gotta pull the front cover.

What part of "Never Remove the Timing Chain Wedge during the installation process" was so hard to understand?

 

[Brick]

if theres a question of the timing jumping, the only thing to do is pull the cover and redo the timing.

Correct the marks only line up every <insert some stupid number here> and just turning over the motor means absolutely dick when you can only see the phaser side of the chain

I had a feeling pulling the front cover is the only way to be sure. I was trying to think last night if I got the blue link lined up on the passenger side that I know is correct, if the questionable driver side would line up too and I could know if it was off or not.

Are the timing cover gaskets reusable or not? Ford says replace them, but they say that too about the valve covers and I know they're reusable. What about the crank seal?

Looks like I'll have to drain the coolant, so this would be a good time update to the 07+ crossover.

And while I'm in there I might as well update to the steel bodied tensioners.

Anything else I'm missing?

 

[Wild White Pony]

Like Wes said, any question of an error, pull the timing cover and line everything up. It's not hard to do and can save you money and time. Get a new set of gaskets and seal for the timing cover, make sure you add the silicone in specified places or you will get a leak.

Not a bad time to check your timing chains and tensioners while your adding the cams. When installing new cams with a wedge you need to leave the back cam caps off and tilt the cam a little to mount the phaser. Before you final torq the cam caps make sure your followers are centered perfectly, you should be able to wiggle them a little back and forth.

 

[Brick]

Yep, gotta pull the front cover.

What part of "Never Remove the Timing Chain Wedge during the installation process" was so hard to understand?

Shit happens when you're working on it 1am... lesson learned. Looking at is an opportunity to learn more and do a couple other upgrades that I had been planning to do down the road anyway.

 

[Brick]

Like Wes said, any question of an error, pull the timing cover and line everything up. It's not hard to do and can save you money and time. Get a new set of gaskets and seal for the timing cover, make sure you add the silicone in specified places or you will get a leak.

Not a bad time to check your timing chains and tensioners while your adding the cams. When installing new cams with a wedge you need to leave the back cam caps off and tilt the cam a little to mount the phaser. Before you final torq the cam caps make sure your followers are centered perfectly, you should be able to wiggle them a little back and forth.

That would've been where I messed up then. I torqued the caps down first, then tried to mount the phaser.

When I do get the cover off, checking the timing should be as simple as rotating the engine by hand until all the blue links line up with both phasers and the crank sprocket, correct?

 

[BlueDevil]

I think it's been established that you shouldn't go with the metal tensioners. Go with new plastic ones.

 

[Wes06]

You should pull the chains and just re line them up

Probably be quicker than turning it over until it line up

 

[Brick]

I think it's been established that you shouldn't go with the metal tensioners. Go with new plastic ones.

Why is that? After reading through this thread (http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73261&highlight=F6AZ-6L266-DA&page=2) I was under the impression that the steel ratcheting tensioners were better than the stock plastic ones. Is that not the case? I only have 30k miles, a whole new timing kit shouldn't be needed at this point, should it?

Thank you guys for all the help so far. I will start to pull the cover tonight and post back with what I find.

 

[ghunt81]

Looks like I'll have to drain the coolant, so this would be a good time update to the 07+ crossover.

I've heard mention of this, but never looked into it myself...what's the advantage of the newer coolant crossover?

BTW- I just went through the same ordeal except I made a different screwup. I would just replace the timing cover gaskets, they're cheap, and more difficult to get to than the valve covers if the old ones would leak.

 

[Brick]

I've heard mention of this, but never looked into it myself...what's the advantage of the newer coolant crossover

It just cleans up the engine bay a little bit and looks nicer. If anybody has an 07+ crossover they want to get rid of, I'm looking for one. I didn't realize the rules had changed for posting in the WTB section since the last time I posted in there.

After doing some more searching, I think I'll stick with the plastic tensioners. Thanks BlueDevil for tipping me off about it. Should I go ahead and do the whole timing kit at 30k miles or just the seals?

 

[Wes06]

Some supercharger setups actually require the older style coolant, others require the newer.

And yea the newer cleans up the bay a little without the extra hose going to the head

 

[ghunt81]

At only 30K I wouldn't see any sense in doing the whole timing kit...far as I know everything in there is good to over 100K unless something fails. I replaced my tensioners when I had my cover off (I'm at almost 90K) but everything else looks good including the chain guides.

 

[Brick]

Just got the front cover pulled off and now I'm a little confused... I don't see any of the blue timing links. I did some searching and there's talk about copper links, but I can't distinguish those either or I'm not looking closely enough. How do you go about aligning everything without a reference point on each of the chains?

Also, I noticed the driver side tensioner is able to be compressed by hand, but the passenger side will not move. That doesn't seem right to me... is one too loose or the other too tight?

 

[Wes06]

Without dark links. Just pull the chain tight on a flat surface, then mark the link on each end and use that.

That's how the marks are setup

 

[Brick]

Without dark links. Just pull the chain tight on a flat surface, then mark the link on each end and use that.

That's how the marks are setup

Wes, thanks! I looked up some pictures of the chains with the blue links and can see what you mean about them being at each end. There's 28 normal links between each of the two blue ones.

Does anyone know about the tensioners, one able to be moved and one not?

 

[ghunt81]

Mine didn't have any colored links either.

The tensioners hold oil to maintain pressure but they also have a spring inside...and I don't think the oil is supposed to drain out, maybe the one you can push in has a bad o-ring and is leaking oil? I dunno.

 

[Brick]

Mine didn't have any colored links either.

The tensioners hold oil to maintain pressure but they also have a spring inside...and I don't think the oil is supposed to drain out, maybe the one you can push in has a bad o-ring and is leaking oil? I dunno.

I took the stuck one off the block and still couldn't get it to retract without putting it in a vice. I'm just going to replace both of them for peace of mind while I'm in there.

Thanks again guys for all your help! Slowly getting this figured out and will start putting it all back together soon.

 

[Brick]

I'm starting to reassemble everything and found what I think is another small issue, this time with the driver's side phaser. The three roll pins are slightly loose, just enough that I can wiggle the trigger wheel.

I was reading these threads...
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64833
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5151

and they both show a little dowel that gets inserted in lieu of the roll pins. Neither of my phasers have these dowels. Is there a source for them?

More searching shows the pins are 2mm x 6mm, would these work? http://www.mcmaster.com/#headed-precision-pins/=11wskfs

Edit again: Just realized the phaser bolt is what really secures the trigger wheel and spring tightly up against the rest of the phaser. As long as the roll pins don't shear off and allow the spring to unwind, it should be fine.