How would you recommend improving my tune?

[1950StangJump$]

I have a 2008 GT with the Stage 1 Kenne Bell, CAI, Kooks headers, high flow cats. Since 2009, it has had the canned, Kenne Bell tune. I bought it about a year ago, and it always ran well. Came with a dyno sheet, but it was ripped for an HP reading (by the SC installer) and not custom tuned. There was no wideband bung and no air/fuel gauge.

But, given the headers and CAI, I decided to play it safe and have it dyno tuned. A bung was installed, and the HP came in very close to the canned tune, but I was able to clearly see a safe air/fuel ratio. At WOT, it started about 12:1 at 3000 RPMs and quickly dropped to 11.8:1 and down to 11.6:1 as the RPMs climbed. Mostly hovered in the 11.7 or 11.8 range. Perfect, IMO.

Problem is, the dyno tune kind of sucks at light throttle and low RPMs -- especially when the car is cold. It is very sluggish. When I switch back to the canned Kenne Bell tune, that problem goes away. But, I now have the wideband sensor with an Aeroforce gauge which I didn't last time I used the Kenne Bell tune. So, I can now see the air/fuel ratio at WOT starts at 12.5:1 and never gets below 12.2:1. It mostly hovers around 12:3:1. From what I read, that is too lean.

So, my choices:

1. Contact Kenne Bell to see if they have a tune update? If this tune is from 2009, perhaps they have changed it? Or, could the headers be making that tune run lean because it was intended for stock manifolds? I *think* the CAI came with the Kenne Bell kit, so I doubt that is changing anything.

2. Contact my dyno tuner to try and fix the light throttle sluggishness? Problem here, I have no faith that he'll have much patience in dialing in the tune for light throttle drivability. My experience is that most dyno tuners are worried about safely making full throttle power. Plus, it is a PITA to get my car to him because he is so far away.

3. Go with Lito? Problem here, I am not looking forward to all the datalogging or with paying for a tune a second time.

Opinions?

 

[Wes06]

Always gotta suggest lito when it comes to tunes

 

[Humanoid]

Give your dyno tuner a try. Perhaps he can look at the Kenne Bell tune and adjust the regular driving parameters, keeping the WOT the same.

 

[46addict]

My experience with dyno tunes is the same as yours. They never could get street driveability right. So I would lean heavily towards #3. If KB has locked/encrypted the tune file, no one else would be able to see how things are set. A different tuner would be writing the tune from scratch, just FYI. And as for hiring a different tuner, it's not a matter of cost/time anymore. Lito may be the only tuner who can get this right. And he will work with you until you're happy.

And I have to ask, what do you mean by the dyno sheet was ripped for an HP reading? Was it only tuned for WOT and no other part of the tune was worked on?

 

[1950StangJump$]

What I mean is, they put it on the dyno and tested the RWHP with the canned tune. But, there was no customization done. In reality, the lean condition has likely been that way for 9 years, so I guess it isn't too bad . . . though the car only has 19k miles.

I am also leaning towards #3 . . . I really didn't like my dyno tuner all that much, and I dread asking him to look at this. I know he'll want the car and want to experience the sluggishness himself. Then, I'll have to leave the car with him and get a ride (he's 75 minutes from me). Only for him to say he doesn't feel it, or to not fix it right. Blah, blah, blah.

One thing that had me apprehensive about the remote tuning was having confidence that the wideband is calibrated correctly. Its an Innovate LC-2, bought at Lito's recommendation. The analog 1 is going to my Aeroforce gauge, and the analog 2 is going to the Firewire for the SCT handheld. Unfortunately, the analog 2 is calibrated as a narrow band, so I have to reprogram it to read like analog 1. To do that, I probably need to buy an adaptor to make Innovate's archaic serial cord marry to my laptop.

Nothing is easy. I just want the tune right and then enjoy the car.

 

[hammeron]

Ken Belle tune + the next size bigger, blower pulley. you may only sacrifice 20hp and
the A/F might be right where you want it....just an option.

 

[46addict]

Unfortunately, the analog 2 is calibrated as a narrow band, so I have to reprogram it to read like analog 1. To do that, I probably need to buy an adaptor to make Innovate's archaic serial cord marry to my laptop.

Nothing is easy. I just want the tune right and then enjoy the car.

You lost me here. Analog 1 & 2 is Livewire lingo for getting data from accessory gauges not connected to the stock OBD system. With the right voltage conversion factor, you can log whatever you want whether it's a narrowband or wideband o2 sensor.

And that serial to USB cable is still sold in office supply stores. I have a few laying around so if you want I'll mail it to you. Just send it back when you're done.

 

[1950StangJump$]

You lost me here. Analog 1 & 2 is Livewire lingo for getting data from accessory gauges not connected to the stock OBD system. With the right voltage conversion factor, you can log whatever you want whether it's a narrowband or wideband o2 sensor.

And that serial to USB cable is still sold in office supply stores. I have a few laying around so if you want I'll mail it to you. Just send it back when you're done.

Yea, the default for the Analog 1 of the Innovate is programmed to output between 0 V for an AFR of 7.35 (gasoline) and 5.0V for an AFR of 22.39.

Analog Output 2 is 1.1 V for an AFR of 14 and .1 V for an AFR of 15.

I *think* I need to make Analog Output 2 match that of the Analog Output 1. If I do that, does the SCT X4 read it correctly when datalogging, or is there some change calibrating I still have to do on the SCT X4?

Thanks, but I think I have access to the needed cord after all.

 

[46addict]

Yes that is what I did for mine. I believe it was the brown wire out of the Innovate that I connected with the SCT firewire. No other calibration is needed besides applying the equation for converting volts to AFR.

edit: the o2 sensor itself on the wideband needs to be calibrated in free air but you probably already knew that if you've had this for a while.

 

[sman247]

My dyno tune is perfect for street ability with a whipple at 16psi

 

[1950StangJump$]

Yes that is what I did for mine. I believe it was the brown wire out of the Innovate that I connected with the SCT firewire. No other calibration is needed besides applying the equation for converting volts to AFR.

edit: the o2 sensor itself on the wideband needs to be calibrated in free air but you probably already knew that if you've had this for a while.

Addict, the o2 was calibrated during install consistent with what you said. But now, when I reprogram the Innovate so that the Analog 2 output matches the Analog 1 output (via Innovate's downloadable software), no other actions are required for the SCT software to properly read A/F numbers from the Innovate, right?

 

[46addict]

I did not do any extra programming with Innovate's software or with SCT. My understanding with the Innovate software is that you can use it to adjust the range of your min/max AFR readout if you wish to reduce the resolution for more accuracy. You can also adjust the wideband response speed through this.

But nothing else is needed to get started.

 

[1950StangJump$]

Okay, but if you used the Analog 2 output from the Innovate, you had to change the AFR conversion numbers (or LAMBDA) within Innovate's software so that Analog 2 matched Analog 1, right?

 

[46addict]

Yes, that's what I meant earlier when I said conversion factor. You go into the Equations tab in Livelink and enter the formula. For the LC2 it's (v*3)+7.35 which is also one of the preset equations for LC1 in Livelink. This is the formula for AFR. For lambda you will need something different.

 

[1 Alibi 2]

I've only had 2 cars tuned, no expert.
Both were tuned on the street, then put on the dyno for proof / grooming. If the tuner isn't happy with the way it drives, it never gets to the dyno.
Guessing most tuners don't take the time to do it right !!

 

[AndrewNagle]

I've only had 2 cars tuned, no expert.
Both were tuned on the street, then put on the dyno for proof / grooming. If the tuner isn't happy with the way it drives, it never gets to the dyno.
Guessing most tuners don't take the time to do it right !!

This is how my guy does it as well and the driveablilty is great

 

[1950StangJump$]

I decided to go with the Lito tune. In the meantime, my dyno tuner volunteered to email a revision . . . though I don't know who he can do that when he has no datalogs, nor has he driven and experienced the condition about which I'm complaining.

Unfortunately, when I plugged my SCT X4 into my laptop, the stock file somehow got corrupted and it won't let me load any tunes. Sometimes, I can't catch a break.

 

[1950StangJump$]

Thought I'd circle back on this.

I might be the only person on the internet that didn't have a great Lito experience. There was some hiccup in his tunes for me that caused the car to idle hunt and stall. After the 6th or 7th try, I got frustrated and he refunded my money. Sounded like he had a lot going on, so maybe I was just a victim of circumstance. He was definitely a consummate professional during the back-and-forth on the tune issues.

Eventually, I went with LaSota, and I would highly recommend them. The tune was very close from the get go. Data-logged idle first, then free revving at standstill, then slow acceleration under load. None need adjustments, which was surprising give my mods. Once we got to the point of WOT runs, the first tune was lean, so they fixed that with one try. Then, they turned adaptive learning back on, and the car got happy. I had to circle back to get the speedo tuned in and the rear O2s turned off.

Its a good tune and drives well. They only charge $150, which is a bargain. Customer service is very good -- they are very quick to respond to emails and to requests.

It felt like I started to wear them out towards the end as I requested adjustments, but that's probably because I was more than $150 worth of work, LOL. At one point during the data-logging process, they even tried to put more throttle response in for me at my request (despite the tune already showing as on point per the data logs) . . . but that didn't work out well so they went back to the old tune and then made the final tweaks.

Good stuff.

 

[06monera96]

Problem with dyno tunes is hard to load the car up properly.
once you take it to the street, the tuner might have to do a few more tweaks.
Happen's a lot 2005+ vehicles have so many tables from what i've learned