I Need Some Guidance

[Nick]

After a year of saving, I am finnally ready to pull the triger on forced induction. Since it seems the majority of you have some type of supercharger or turbo, I figured this was the best place to ask for help. I have been debating for a month now whether I should go with a whipple or the powerhouse turbo.

I came down to these two options after much deliberation, so while I know most of you are loyal to your own manufacturer, I hope you still be willing to help me out.

I don't want to have another turbo vs. twinscrew type thread. All I am looking for is advise; what do you like about _____, if you could do it again would you go with _____.

Here is a little about my car use: it has never, and probably will never see the track. It is my daily driver, and I have no plans to exceed 500wrhp. I want to keep the stock bottem end, and therefore would like to go a safe rout. I rarely drive on freeways, most my driving is inner city, however, my commute has a couple of long strait-shots where I do drive at WOT.

So far my arguement for the turbo is it is easier on the stock internals, has a huge amount of torque, the supplied tune will allow me to get to a dyno and then it can be altered as needed.

My arguement for the twinscrew it it has lowend power, and is less expensive (since I would by a gt500 pump, sparkplugs, and cmvc deletes for the turbo)

My biggest concern with either is that the supllied whipple tune can be lean, and since I am self installing and would need a tune to get the car to a dyno I need it. Plus, if it turns out to be lean I have to go through a long ordeal to fix it (send the pcm back, have it put back to stock, etc.).

I am leaning towards the turbo as of now, but if anyone has any advise I will listen to it gratefully.

 

[KIMMER]

I went through the same thing...ended up with a whipple that I just took out for a drive...wow! It's a beast, but still needs to be fine tuned so I bet i'm only feeling 75% of the true power. I went with the diablo tuner also and I am having adam@st do the tune. Got a safe base tune, now just need to get to the dyno so he can tweek it. The whipple kit is very nice and went together well except for a couple of problems that were caused by me and lack of sleep...lmao.

 

[thump_rrr]

I believe that your location can affect your decision.

I live in Montreal which is a days drive from any competent tuner.

This is why I went with the Saleen/JDM Engineering combo.

It's a proven setup with great support if needed.

Without even getting the car onto the dyno I'm running mid 11's

No doubt the turbo will make more power and there is no chance of throwing belts.

I just don't find that a turbo setup looks as clean as an S/C setup and trying to remove things such as a radiator is more complicated.

If I were to go turbo it would be to make an 800-1000 rwhp street killer which I am in no position to do at the present time.

Best of luck with your decision and I don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

[ZmanM3]

I would go with the S/C for what you want. Easier install, you can get a very safe tune and plenty of low end power which would be better for stop and go inner city driving.

 

[Nick]

The great thing about living in Houston is that Dyno Joe is nearby, and though I've never met him all I've heard are good things.

Neither of the installs intimidates me; while I would not consiter my mechanical skills praise worthy, after reading posts about both installs I am confident that I can pull either one off. Plus, in my book, a greater challenge always reaps a greater reward.

I would love to have low-end power, especially since I am unsually driving light to light, but the whipple tuning issues are scaring me. Does anyone drive or has anyone driven a turbo as a daily, mostly inner city, driver? What do you think about the lack of low end toque, is it really all that much to miss? Since I usually cruise around town at 2500 rpm would low end torque be a big deal? The only thing I think I would really miss out on is leaving from a stoplight-punching the throttle and being able to take off.

 

[Cali HP Addict]

You can't go wrong with either setup. I truly enjoy the TS and my car is a daily driver. I think that Chevykiller is the best to answer this question as he has used them all.

 

[retfr8flyr]

For what you are describing as your needs I think a TS would be your best choice.

Earl

 

[Nick]

Lets say I were to go with the Whipple-would it be wise to trust the included tune? I know that Jared at Lethal will delete the tune and refund me that part of the package, but where could I get a simple/safe tune that will allow me to drive to a dyno (Lethal's is not yet out). I want to install the whipple/turbo myself as that is half the fun, but part of installing itself means I need to have an included tune that will safetly allow me to get to a dyno.

 

[Slofoot]

Personally, I would go with the Whipple as well. Turbo cars are wicked at the track but the off idle power from the twin screw is a blast on the street without the inherent heat issues from the turbo ( in a stop and go trafiic situation). With a descent base tune you should have no problems driving across town to the tuner. Just keep your foot out of it!!!

 

[94tbird]

Quote From ChevyKiller

Well, I now have driven the same car with a Vortech @ 14 psi, a 67mm turbo at 14 psi, a 76mm turbo @ 14 psi and a KB TS @13 psi and here is my humble opinion...

TS hands down the best on the street. I'm not just saying that cause I currently have the TS either.

For the track, I obviously made more power with the turbo but I honestly liked the centrifugal best at the track. I liked being able to leave hard but not under full boost and have the boost kick in with rpm. This made handling the car much easier at the track when I started getting fast. I also think though that the centrifugal was best suited on a manual set-up. I drove the vortech with both and preferred the manual on the street and the auto at the track.

The turbo was a lot of fun and a great set-up for the 11 psi range but once I exceeded that, it wasn't much fun on the street IMO as it just hit too hard and ran too hot to really do anything on the street. If I was a guy that just liked freeway racing from a 50 roll, then the turbo would have been nice, but I'm not really into that so it wasn't for me.

The TS is a little tricky at the track and I didn't fare so good on my one and only pass. I did a horrible burnout cause the rev limiter is set for 6400 during this break in and I bumped it instantly and rolled out with a terrible burnout. I launched off the brake at about 4000 rpm and spun on the line for about 1/2 second before launching, then spun aagin at the 1-2 shift. I ran a 7.39 with a 1.64 60' @ 94 mph.

Could have done much better but all in all, content with my my first pass in the car learning and trying to baby it. I think at the current 13 psi on pump gas, I can turn a 6.9-7.0 easily when I get some more seat time in the thing.

The difference on the street with the TS is night and day. I do enjoy that you can cruise the car around all day without ever being in boost with no effort and full boost is on tap whenever you desire it.

The driveability, the temps, and the overall performance on the street is hands down better IMO than the centrifi and turbo set-ups on my car.

 

[Nick]

The only problem with the what ChevyKiller said was it is confusing, on one hand he says that the TS is the best on the street, but farther down he says that the turbo is great bellow 11psi (which is where I plan to run mine).

Also, in another post he wrote that:

I think the PH kit is a great kit for the 9-11 psi range and psi for psi - I also think it's the best choice for a any FI kit out there if you are happy in those levels. I just do not think it's a good choice for 13+ psi.

It would be nice to know which he found to be the most fun on the street at 10psi.

 

[don_w]

The only thing I think I would really miss out on is leaving from a stoplight-punching the throttle and being able to take off.

You'll need really good tires!

 

[Nick]

Have a set of Nitto 555Rs (305/45) on the way: I plan on having fun on the street.

As far as launching the car-would leaving at 3000rmp allow me to immedietly start builing boost in the turbo car? Since I cruise around at 2500rmp, I don't think getting into boost from a roll should be much of a problem, the only thing that I feel I would really need the low-end torque for is from a stop. (But what do I know, I've never driven either type)

 

[me-gone]

I have read several postings on the forums where a guy with a SC would say he wished he had gone with a Turbo but not even one time have I read where a Turbo guy says he wished he had gone with a SC. The Turbo and down pipe can be wrapped to hold the heat in. I also noted there are loads of people running SC without a built lower end but almost every one with a Turbo has a built motor to hold the HP.

 

[Nick]

ChevyKiller went from turbo to twinscrew, thats why I hope to hear his opinion.

As far as a built shortblock, safetly tuned I believe that the stock bottom end can handle the whipple or the turbo-I do realize that it will be living on borrowed time though.

 

[Charlie Sheen]

...safetly tuned I believe that the stock bottom end can handle the whipple or the turbo ... I do realize that it will be living on borrowed time though.

So which is it?

 

[Charlie Sheen]

...but not even one time have I read where a Turbo guy says he wished he had gone with a SC...

You need to keep reading.

 

[me-gone]

ChevyKiller went from turbo to twinscrew, thats why I hope to hear his opinion.

As far as a built shortblock, safetly tuned I believe that the stock bottom end can handle the whipple or the turbo-I do realize that it will be living on borrowed time though.

LOL He goes is so many directions no one knows what he is going to do next. Very few of us have the coins to throw at a car like he does. One day he may even have a twin turbo. I have to be right the first time so I would go with a built block first.
Safely tuned? You bet cha but whats the point in having a power booster without using it?

 

[ChevyKiller]

I don't have as much coin as you may think...lol

Being able to recoup a chunk of the money back for the Vortech and turbo made a big difference. I would not have made the switch either time if the kit didn't sell first.

There is no one set 'best' set-up IMO. There are a lot of factors but let's deal with the factors you provided...

#1 - you mentioned you were going to stay on the stock motor. That leaves the turbo out right there IMO. YES, the kits seem to run fine in the 9-11 psi range but let's also look at the facts...

Fact 1 - Turbo kit shave blown more S197 motors than centrifi and TS kits
Fact2 - there are less turbo kits than centrifi and TS
You don't have to be a rocket scientists to do the math - the least amount of kits and the most amount of failures = bad gamble on the stock motor IMO.

For the guy who mentioned wrapping the piping - I had both my turbo kits wrapped like X-mas. I had ALL the piping including the headers wrapped in exhaust wrap and I had a turbo blanket. You are thinking when I say that turbos are bad on the street because they (physical piping and unit) run hot and that is not what I mean by 'running hot'. What I mean is they 'run hot' by producing higher intake temps than the other FI kits. The fact they are all air cooled is a big contributing factor to this IMO. + the fact they hit so hard is also a strain on the CPU of these modular motors when adjusting for IAT's.

99% of the guys you hear about making big numbers on the dyno and at the track with S197 turbo kits are not daily drivers...period. You can be okay at 9-10 psi but I personally do not like running a system that hits that hard and is air cooled as a daily driver.

I can tell you what I think or feel or what the differences were on my set-up and it doesn't mean it's right. What IS right are the facts that were datalogged on my car with all 3 kits and the turbo produced and kept the highest intake temps of all 3 kits. That's just a fact. I don't understand how so many people say the turbo is the 'easiest on your motor' when the turbo kits had my motor running the warmest at all levels of rpm and boost?? Heat is always the enemy and since the turbo produced more heat accross the board than the other kits, I don't see how it is 'easier on your motor' unless higher intake temps and heat is 'easier'...lol

If I was building a balls out trailer track car, I would go a turbo set-up, but I would also replace my passenger seat with a giant waterbox and also fab an N20 spray set-up through the intercooler on top. This is what a turbo kit needs on our cars IMO.

I could go on on and ultimately, do whatever you want but I would never recommend a turbo kit after my own personal experience. Sure you say, I'll stay at 9 psi and you may be fine there but in my experience, I have come accross very few who never have the desire to turn their car up once they start modding - even on the stock motor.

From what you described, it sounds like you want something to give your car a little kick and have some fun on the street while not breaking the bank with other mods or a rebuild. I would hands down recommend the whipple for what you described you want to do now and in the future.

I have really looked at the whipple and KB kits heavily in the last 6 months and I personally beleive the whipple to be more efficent and street friendly than the KB. But I know the KB makes more power and has more power potential...period. So I would also recommend the KB to those where it meets their requirments but in your case, from what you've said, I would say Whipple would be your best bet. But I also noted your issue with having a tuner and then the KB may be a good bet for you as well as KB has the best canned kit included tune IMO of all the FI kits. I know a dozen guys who have the KB with great success who never got a custom tune and still run the KB included tune with 100% satisfaction.

So that is something to weigh also in your decision. If you have no access to a good whipple tune, I might lean more towards the KB.

Just my 2 cents.