If you Drag Race, PLEASE weld your axle tubes.

wbt

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That is the unit I am running after asking around. It works great, tucks up out of the way, and fits with the stock exhaust. Pricey, but a nice unit.

The bmr k-member and arms worked well on my car, weight off the front can't hurt. Only thing I notice is vibration in the car at very low RPM's (under 500rpm), but that is something related to my setup and tune, at idle RPM's swing a little. It only vibrates at the bottom of the rpm swing, once that is resolved I don't think I'll really have any increased noise/vibration from the stiffer mounts in the kmember.

Good to hear. :)

kdanner has been running one (TRZ anti-roll bar) on his car and it worked so well I decided to get one as well. It is a nice compact design that includes an adjustable panhard rod setup so you are knocking 2 things out at the same time. Great piece for sure. :beer:
 

Bmr4life

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<--- Jelly! Mine hops pretty fiercely at times. I wish I could understand why some do and some don't. Does yours have 19" wheels?

I'm on 20"s daily. 17" DR when I race. Now that I think about it, the wheel hop I had in my 05 was with these 20s on.
 

rayS197

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They are stronger? When did you test this to verify?

Ours do not require welding either. I have stated that in response to your misinformed posts, a few times now. I assume you just do not want to accept what I have to say.

I have to agree the CHE brackets seemed to be stronger, stout and better design than BMR. I have had both products in my hand side by side and the CHE design seems to be better. On another vehicle, I have actually removed the BMR pieces to be replaced with CHE for this same reason. Here is another thread with bent BMR pieces and i know there is another I just cant find it with better pictures and the carnage. Old design or new its still inferior to a competitor.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56214

As for the CHE brace, I am not sure why anyone would choose to add a large bracket/brace, weight, and potential clearance issues....when you can just weld your axle tubes.

I have nothing against it, but welding your tubes is a cheaper and stronger solution, that also weighs less.
The CHE is an option another than welding. It doesnt weigh that much as you are making it out to be. If it was a BMR piece or design you would be pushing it. Look where the weight is. On the rear, not up front. You can see from other posts that welding may exceed the cost of the CHE brace.


Once again, someone posting a picture of our old design. That design was a great design, that we recommended welding if drag racing. Out of thousands sold, I think we did run into a few people who bent them.

Since you are into the linking game, here is a good one for you:

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66325&highlight=relocation+brackets+umi

Post # 16




As for the posts, I was referring to this post/reply you made in another thread:

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1434244&postcount=307

Directly in response to posts about BMR brackets.

As for the clearance, I should have clarified. If you use the CHE axle brace, you cannot utilize the BMR Anti-Roll bar and BMR LCA Relocation brackets without extensive modification. Those two parts, we probably sell more than the entire market....so I am just trying to inform potential or current BMR customers that clearance may be an issue.

You found one thread and chose Ron to use. LOL!! Ron breaks "EVERYTHING". He has been the S197 platform parts tester since 2005. Its between Ron and Mark (ChevyKiller). Those two broke everything they installed. Look in the classifieds now as Ron is selling everything.

Clearance issues?? here are some ground shots. Where is the issue?? I cant see one.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42150&highlight=CHE+axle+brace
http://www.modularfords.com/f79/che-peformance-axle-brace-installed-67510/

One may not want to run the BMR ARB and the axle brace. Some may not even want BMR products due to the fact they clash with other products. Its not all about BMR. In this picture you can clearly see the CHE anti squat brackets, a sway bar and the axle brace all installed with no issue you speak of. What extensive modification are you talking about? Again where are clearance issues.
Most of us who mod our cars, know some things will have to be adjusted to work. Thats a given!!
CHE9LA.jpg

My CHE axle brace comes in tomorrow and Ill do a mock up with pictures and show you it all will work.






I dont wanna turn this into a BMR VS Every other company thread, but must reply to some posts.

The BMR Anti-Roll bar is a streetable bar, that completely bolts-on (except axle tabs), and has ZERO exhaust clearance issues.

If it aint BMR, it aint shit!! LOL!! The BMR link for the ARB says for Drag racing only and this topic has been discussed several times on this forum.
 
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Sharad

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Not trying to call you out on this sharad but i dont see how in any kind of way the lca brackets will put more force on the rear. I would say yea if they moved the leverage further out torwards the tire, thus creating the old cheater pipe effect and making axle tubes longer and putting more stress where the tubes are pressed in the center chunk.

I just spent WAY too much time drawing this diagram... but hopefully it will make sense. When you increase the distance between the control arm bolt and the axle, you increase the leverage that the control arm has on the axle housing.

momentarm-1.jpg


This diagram is a simplification of what all is going on in there, but it is a crude representation of how the forces act on the axle tube. Basically, the axle tube is trying to move forward, the weight of the body of the car (inertia) is resisting that motion, so it's pushing straight back, through the lower control arm. The force that the LCA puts on the axle housing is the same before and after the relo brackets, but when you increase the distance from the control arm bolt to the axle by adding the relo brackets, you give that force more leverage on the axle, so it makes it easier to twist the axle tube.

If you imagine that your LCA mount is a ratchet and the LCA is your hand, then you can imagine trying to break a bolt loose that was torqued down to 100 lb-ft. Hold the ratch 6" away from the bolt and you can't turn it. Then hold the ratchet 12" away from the bolt, and you can finally turn it. It's because you have more leverage.

The LCA relo brackets give the LCAs more leverage on the axle tube, so they make it easier to twist the axle tube. Obviously, S197s have an issue with the axle tubes twisting. (although, strangely, our 4000# 2010 has been 9.90 @ 133 with a 1.35 short time on the stock housing with no issues) If you know the cars already have an issue with twisting axle tubes, then you're just asking for trouble when you install the relo brackets. But Kelly is right, if you weld the axle tubes, you'll decrease the likelihood that your axle tubes will twist out.


If a person is planning on drag racing alot welding the axle tubes and good ford racing diff cover will def stiffen things up and save alot of possible failures.

Agreed, although I'd recommend the UPR diff cover. ;)


Not trying to say one shop is better than the other but instant center brackets of any quality brand is gonna help your 60 ft times. Having more adjustments to the rear suspension helps tremendous and the LCA brackets with multi adjustments can control how hard you hit the tires, everyone knows drag slick and drag radials are two diff beasts at the starting line, just ask all the guys who run x275 stock style suspension cars. Just like a n/a aluminum block 5.0s instant center will be different than an iron block nose heavy gt500. Point blank, more adjustments the better.:beer:

Did you see the post I made on UPR's facebook page today? Jake Conant's '03 Cobra was running 60-foot times in the 1.4Xs. He wanted to hook harder, so he bought one of those fruity UCA relocation kits. His best 60-foot time on them slowed to a 1.52. Then he removed the relo junk and installed a straight forward UPR Pro Series setup and the car responded with a 1.30.

Suspension setup is a very complicated thing. More adjustment holes don't always equal quicker ETs.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I understand the use for relo brackets and their multiple adjustment holes... but if our car goes 1.35 without relo brackets, and on street style suspension and radials, then I don't feel relo brackets are "necessary" to make these cars hook.

It's not about us vs. them. Some people like PD blowers, some like centrifugals. Some people like UPR, some like BMR. That's perfectly fine with me. There's room for all of us in the market.
 
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JDCoon

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Your drawing does make since in the twisting theory. But i would think the fact the car weighs so much and when all that weight is shifted to the rear forcing pressure on the tires each end of the axle tubes are shoved up towards the top of the fender well while the center section is being pressed down. Kinda like i've heard people say not to jack these cars up from the center junks.

On the 03 cobra his instant center must be needed further toward the front. No not all those holes are needed but having more options to adjust with has to help. And a 03's instant center will be different than a s197.

Yalls car def 60 footed great, most all of JDM built cars do. The black car of Mike Delisantes has had 1.28 60fts with instant center brackets and the lca in the bottom hole. The red roush car as well. Trust me i know this for a fact. Jim has used LCA backets for years with great success and set lots of records with daily driven s197s. Jim likes running his cars on the bottom hole, evolution performance will tell you to put them in the middle adjust on there gt500s. Iron block gt500s with stick shifts have different instant center than an aluminum block 4.6 with automatics, so thats why they sell them with multi adjustments.

To many shops have set records with lca brackets for them not to work. No not all people need them but to get the most out of your suspension i think they are helpful. Being yall test your parts why not try a set on yalls car and see the results? Share the info with us, i love learning:)
 
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BMR Tech

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So anyways, ensure your axles are supported in one way, or another, if you plan on drag racing. Twisting an axle tube is no fun for anybody, and can add up to be pretty costly.

JD, you and Elisa going to be at BG sir?
 

BMR Tech

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It's not about us vs. them. Some people like PD blowers, some like centrifugals. Some people like UPR, some like BMR. That's perfectly fine with me. There's room for all of us in the market.

There better be room. We just spent a bunch of money on a few '79 - '04 cars to roll out an entire suspension line. :beer:

Once we get to the new facility, I hope the R&D and Engineering on the Torque Arms and Watts Links for '79 - Current, will be expedited.
 

JDCoon

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So anyways, ensure your axles are supported in one way, or another, if you plan on drag racing. Twisting an axle tube is no fun for anybody, and can add up to be pretty costly.

JD, you and Elisa going to be at BG sir?

Its a lil far out for a definate answer with my consistently changing work schedule but we are planning on it:beerdrink:
 

HellsBells

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So um...does that CHE brace work with UMI relocation brackets and LCAs?
 

Norm Peterson

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Your drawing does make since in the twisting theory.
Kelly is spot-on with the solution to twisted axle tubes (the original problem being addressed). While I can't see his photobucket pics (company internet filtering issue), twisting or torsional shear is what's going to break the plug welds. The effect of rearward load transfer is something else, and I'll get to that later.

I've got enough numbers handy to put them up if I have to, but the short version is that when you drop the axle side LCA pivot the torsion applied to the axle tube increases, even though the forward load in the LCA reduces slightly. That's part of it, about a 20% - 30% effect for 2" - 3" downward LCA pivot relocation.

Kelly mentioned wheel hop, and that's the far more important matter. What wheel hop represents in terms of structural loading is impact, which is commonly taken as double the static load (so if you compute 2000 lbs showing up statically at each LCA, it behaves like it was 4000 lbs). This is also a cyclic (repeated) load, which gets into fatigue, and where a few high stress cycles can be far more damaging than thousands or even millions of gentle stress cycles.


But i would think the fact the car weighs so much and when all that weight is shifted to the rear forcing pressure on the tires each end of the axle tubes are shoved up towards the top of the fender well while the center section is being pressed down. Kinda like i've heard people say not to jack these cars up from the center junks.
It's later. Sure, this is a contribution - to axle tube bending anyway. But you'd have to be bending the housing itself for this to add appreciable stress to the plug welds, and by that point you probably have a rather more urgent problem on your hands. BTW, this kind of loading is not associated with as high of an impact factor, since vertical tire compression slows down the rate at which this load develops. So do the rear springs, at least as long as you're getting any squat.

I have nothing against the brace - it's an obvious fix for the kind of loading that would stress it, just that that's a slightly different problem than axle tubes twisting in the housing. Related, yes, but different. It's not really a fix for the rearward load transfer thing, since the brace is oriented horizontally and the rearward load transfer is a vertical load at the axle and tires.


Norm
 
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Sky Render

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Not do be dense, but could this problem occur during hard cornering, such as on a road course or autocross? Or is this mainly caused by launching hard with drag radials or slicks?
 

BMR Tech

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So um...does that CHE brace work with UMI relocation brackets and LCAs?

It might work with slight modding.

The UMI brackets, on the differential side, extend up, and utilize the same mounting point as the CHE brace.
 

HellsBells

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It might work with slight modding.

The UMI brackets, on the differential side, extend up, and utilize the same mounting point as the CHE brace.

That's what I though...I remember the CHE brackets don't go all the way up there. Thanks for the input Kelly.

Anyone (or Kelly, again lol) know if all LCA's work with all LCA relocation brackets? I know they should but who knows. I have UMI LCA's specifically.
 

BMR Tech

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That's what I though...I remember the CHE brackets don't go all the way up there. Thanks for the input Kelly.

Anyone (or Kelly, again lol) know if all LCA's work with all LCA relocation brackets? I know they should but who knows. I have UMI LCA's specifically.

You would need to check each manufacturer.

We design ours to factory spec, with a slight tolerance.

I am pretty sure I have had customers with just about every combo of LCA and Relo Brackets.

The only brand that I know, for certainty, that will NOT work with other components, are the Metco pieces. You have to run a Metco LCA with their Relo Brackets.
 

BMR Tech

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Speaking of relocation brackets, I thought we may have seen our first failure for our new design.

I had a good customer of mine email me pictures, stating that his turbo car bent our brackets.

They turned out to be another company's brackets. I must admit, I was very happy about that.
 

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