Intercooler Pump Locations?

[hamish]

I have been trying to figure out the best way to mount this EMP pump in the engine bay.

I am toying with the idea of running the outlet from the intercooler with a small 3/4" tee fitting bypass to the tiny saleen expansion tank.

My main hoses are 1.25"

This main hose from the IC outlet will go to the bottom of the HE, fill from the bottom and then I will mount the pump up near the HE outlet.
From there a straight shot into the Intercooler Inlet.

I am toying with this idea but there will be no head on the pump and I have never seen anyone try this.

The bypass I speak of is similar to the 2013 GT500 but it doesn't provide any head at the pump.

Anyone try anything like this?

The pump does say that as long as I don't go below -5psi on the inlet the pump will be good to go.

Not sure if this is legit to do but here, post #67 shows the bypass on the GT500.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1013908-GT500-IC-HE-Pump-Comparison/page3

 

[chandlern]

I would rather pump through the restriction than draw through it, most pumps of all sizes aren't happy with vacuum if there is another option. My meziere pump is the low spot in the system, so no issues with bleeding air and the order is tank-pump-IC-HE-tank.

 

[hamish]

The intercooler is still going to be the biggest restriction on my setup.

When I read the other thread about what issues some were having with the Gt500 pump with aeration and how the Gt500 route their systems differently. It started me thinking a little diferently, more than likely I am just over thinking it.

But the EMP is very specific about it's orientation, so I am pretty much limited for simple installation.

 

[Pentalab]

I believe VMP has tried several different configs, with varying results.

Mine goes.... IC -degas - pump - HE...back to IC. Pump is located aprx midway between output (bottom) of de-gas and bottom of HE.

Coolant enters the bottom right hand corner of the HE..and exits the top left corner of the HE.

But I only have a Bosch pump, aprx 4 gpm.

 

[hamish]

^Yeah thats pretty much the standard.
2013 GT500s pull from the outlet of the intercooler and have the little bypass expansion tank. then into the top drivers side of HE.
From there it comes out the bottom into the IC inlet.

I have been combing through a bunch oif threads.
But I already have doubts/concerns about drawing straight from the top of the HE, with no reserve or expansion tank there.

If there is no air in the sytem it probably wouldn't be a problem though.

So every setup has a resevior located at the inlet of the pump.

Even the Block cooling essentially does the same.(I believe)
It has the head from the blocks coolant passage, pumps down into the bottom of the rad.

But it's expansion tank comes right of the outlet side of the WP and is just there for fluid expansion.

So I think the theory of placing the small Saleen off of the Hot IC outlet should be doing essentially the same thing concept wise.

That head Tho

 

[chandlern]

In theory and practice the degas tank immediately before the pump (or a tee to the tank) allows for head pressure on the suction side of the pump which in turn raises the discharge pressure/rate. Yes the intercooler will still be the biggest restriction, however, drawing through a restriction will lower the head at or even create a vacuum at the suction side of the pump which will reduce it's efficiency.

 

[hamish]

^ That's pretty much my concern. I am trying to be as efficient as possible here.

The 2013 Gt 500 system is what I am going off as they upped the pump flow capabilities and I am taking it further with the EMP pump.

They don't use the most efficient practice from the factory by running top first into the HE, but hey it works.

In the link I provided there have been all kinds of issues with aeration of the coolant, alot of that comes from non baffled Expansion tanks.
But those are in systems that follow the original principle of Degas-pump-he-IC

The expansion tank on the 2013 GT500 is bypass on the main coolant line and even has a restriction in the inlet to the tank.

Works OEM

But it still has some head from the tank.

I am still thinking along the lines of degas tee ing off the main out of the IC might be sufficient to prevent aeration.

Now if I can run a line from the top of the HE and mount the pump down low I may be able to provide some head pressure to the pump inlet.

That may be an alternative.

 

[eighty6gt]

Whatever you do mount the pump somewhere where you can get the line from the tank to the pump without a loop in it or something like that. I need to re route my line, if possible - that loop gives you a high spot and it's a process to get the pump to prime.

 

[hamish]

I am trying to make this as efficient as possible, 1.25" hose with as little bending as possible.
Common sense is telling me to route as per standard like Pentalab stated.
But threads like the link I provided show there may be some issues with such a high flow pump.

I was reading a thread from BOB and he spells it from his perspective as to what is most efficient.

So hoping to keep hearing more.

 

[chandlern]

I think you're on the right track, I ran mine as per a thread DOB and others were posting in. I think most problems do come from not totally bleeding the system of air leading to aeration or air locking the pump as the air moves through the system with the pump running and/or car moving. 100% of mine runs through the tank instead of just a tee off the main line for expansion and head pressure, this means that any air left in or introduced to the system pushed into the tank not recirculated. The tank is 2.75gal though not the stock whipple unit.

 

[Fullboogie]

This is a few years old, but one of the best threads on this subject:

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87625&highlight=meziere

 

[redfirepearlgt]

I have the VMP triple pass on my setup. And plumbed exactly how Pentelab mentioned. Seems to be doing just fine. Remained very consistent at NMRA Hebron last month in 92+ ambient air.

 

[Department Of Boost]

The intercooler is still going to be the biggest restriction on my setup.

I was shocked to find that our 3/4" IC actually had the same restriction as our test HE (a stock S197 radiator). I'm sure if a huge HE was used that it would decrease in restriction a bit. But it's not like the HE is 10x more restrictive than the IC. Both lost about 1.5gpm. I would have to look at my notes to see what pump that was. It may have been the stock Bosch.

 

[Department Of Boost]

The expansion tank on the 2013 GT500 is bypass on the main coolant line and even has a restriction in the inlet to the tank.

Are you sure?

 

[hamish]

That's what I read in that SVT link.
I don't have a car myself to confirm on though.

 

[Department Of Boost]

That's what I read in that SVT link.
I don't have a car myself to confirm on though.

I'm 99% sure that's not right.

That looks exactly like the 2007-2012's.

Careful what you read on the interwebs.

 

[eighty6gt]

I'm pretty sure I've seen the parts diagrams for the bypass. The degas can still function but all of the coolant returning doesn't go through it. Maybe Justin@vmp has made his own similar setups.

That said, I also thought Ford supplied a larger Degas on the new gt500's. Can't be trusted!

 

[Department Of Boost]

I'm pretty sure I've seen the parts diagrams for the bypass. The degas can still function but all of the coolant returning doesn't go through it. Maybe Justin@vmp has made his own similar setups.

That said, I also thought Ford supplied a larger Degas on the new gt500's. Can't be trusted!

I would have to see this.

 

[hamish]

http://www.tascaparts.com/auto-part...as-engine/cooling-system-cat/intercooler-scat

Here is the thread again http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1013908-GT500-IC-HE-Pump-Comparison/page3

 

[Department Of Boost]

Well that weird looking.

Here is my guess what happened. They started using the whammie jammie pump and it was a mess in the degas tank. It was cheaper to design/produce that goofy hose than do special degas tanks.

Always be careful doing what OEM's do. Sometimes it's not the best engineering solution. Sometimes they do incredible stuff. And others it's to save pennies.

Or maybe the degas tanks weren't big enough to keep the pump from cavitating????? Still, a better Eva's tank is the real solution.