Hose Placement for Intercooler Expansion Tank Upgrade

[Candy10]

Haven’t been here in an while so quick recap. I’ve got a 2010 GT with a slightly built 4.6 and a Kenne Bell. Anyone with this combo (or similar) knows heat is enemy #1.

The the Kenne Bell IC expansion tank is garbage. It gets hot, it warps, and the cap leaks. So im replacing it with a factory Gt500 tank.

Question I have is regarding the in/out hoses. On the KB one, “IN” is on the upper right side of tank (looking from front of car) and “OUT” is on the bottom left. On the GT500 one, the inlet/outlet positions are flipped; down low on the right side, higher on the left.

Do I need to flip the hoses so the fluid flows from high to low (like the KB). Or is it irrelevant once the cap is on and the system is sealed? I’m asking because I’d have to replace all hoses if they need to be swapped to get them the right length.

 

[07 Boss]

No, Shouldn't make a difference. I reversed the flow the on my whipple intercooler tank and the actual intercooler just because it made more sense with the hose arrangements for me as I have fuel lines running in front of the engine too.

 

[Midlife Crises]

Is this the tank your going to use? Flow goes into the tank on the top left and out to the pump on the bottom right. No problems with the tank but my heat exchanger is waaay too small.

 

[DieHarder]

Is this the tank your going to use? Flow goes into the tank on the top left and out to the pump on the bottom right. No problems with the tank but my heat exchanger is waaay too small.

View attachment 85123

I added a bypass around the intercooler tank on mine (a little more difficult to get the air out but worth it IMO). If your H/E is too small you might want to consider installing a 2013 GT 500 H/E. It's big and a bit thick but does a good job when you're at freeway speeds.

For other H/E's and in depth discussion on the issue see the write up from DOB. It's the reason I chose the H/E & water pump I have in the car. Never had an issue w/overheating though I've never really pushed it that hard by racing her either.

https://www.departmentofboost.com/tech/

 

[Candy10]

No, Shouldn't make a difference. I reversed the flow the on my whipple intercooler tank and the actual intercooler just because it made more sense with the hose arrangements for me as I have fuel lines running in front of the engine too.

Ended up only needing to swap out one of the hoses for it to reach. I know what you mean though, it starts to turn into a web of lines and hoses, hard to keep it a somewhat clean appearance

 

[Candy10]

Is this the tank your going to use? Flow goes into the tank on the top left and out to the pump on the bottom right. No problems with the tank but my heat exchanger is waaay too small.

View attachment 85123

Yep, same tank. I went with the VMP HE with dual fans. Already have a Mishimoto radiator and upgraded to GT500 fans. If temps still aren’t where I need them, I’ll start building ducting for everything

 

[Candy10]

I added a bypass around the intercooler tank on mine (a little more difficult to get the air out but worth it IMO). If your H/E is too small you might want to consider installing a 2013 GT 500 H/E. It's big and a bit thick but does a good job when you're at freeway speeds.

For other H/E's and in depth discussion on the issue see the write up from DOB. It's the reason I chose the H/E & water pump I have in the car. Never had an issue w/overheating though I've never really pushed it that hard by racing her either.

https://www.departmentofboost.com/tech/

How’d you go about the bypass? Cut the hoses and use tee’s?

 

[Candy10]

Sorry bout the late response to y’all, been a hell of a week

 

[DieHarder]

How’d you go about the bypass? Cut the hoses and use tee’s?

Like this: I used a T for the input and a Y for the output. I figure 80% or more of the flow is thru the bypass. My FI setup is a DOB w/M122; 2013 GT500 HE and water pump. System works. My IAT's run around 21 deg difference ambient vs compressed..

 

[DieHarder]

Haven’t been here in an while so quick recap. I’ve got a 2010 GT with a slightly built 4.6 and a Kenne Bell. Anyone with this combo (or similar) knows heat is enemy #1.

The the Kenne Bell IC expansion tank is garbage. It gets hot, it warps, and the cap leaks. So im replacing it with a factory Gt500 tank.

Question I have is regarding the in/out hoses. On the KB one, “IN” is on the upper right side of tank (looking from front of car) and “OUT” is on the bottom left. On the GT500 one, the inlet/outlet positions are flipped; down low on the right side, higher on the left.

Do I need to flip the hoses so the fluid flows from high to low (like the KB). Or is it irrelevant once the cap is on and the system is sealed? I’m asking because I’d have to replace all hoses if they need to be swapped to get them the right length.

In my setup the inlet is on the upper port of the tank and the outlet on the lower port (see my reply). Of course you could just go with a bypass (add a couple of short hoses - see pics); use a "T" on the inlet and a "Y" on the outlet and that should take care of it. If you're running hot you need to look at the size of the HE and the water pump. Best bang for the buck I've found are the 2013 GT500 Heat Exchanger & water pump. The HE you can get online; DOB/etc. and the water pump runs around $300 retail.

 

[Candy10]

Like this: I used a T for the input and a Y for the output. I figure 80% or more of the flow is thru the bypass. My FI setup is a DOB w/M122; 2013 GT500 HE and water pump. System works. My IAT's run around 21 deg difference ambient vs compressed..

View attachment 85182

View attachment 85184

View attachment 85185

Nice, thanks! Might be the next little project

 

[Laga]

I have a different setup for the bypass. It uses 2 “T’s” since my degas tank is in a different location.
Only about 10% of the flow goes into the tank. The rest goes to the VMP heat exchanger. The pump is a Davies-Craig EWP-150.

 

[Midlife Crises]

added a bypass

I don’t understand why you bypass the tank. How does that help?

 

[Laga]

I don’t understand why you bypass the tank. How does that help?

It’s not a total bypass, only a partial. This provides for a higher flow rate of coolant through the cooling system while still allowing the tank to operate normally. The tank gives room for expansion of the coolant, but more importantly , a place for any air bubbles caused by cavitation to escape. This is why they are often referred to as a degas tank.

 

[Candy10]

I have a different setup for the bypass. It uses 2 “T’s” since my degas tank is in a different location. View attachment 85190
Only about 10% of the flow goes into the tank. The rest goes to the VMP heat exchanger. The pump is a Davies-Craig EWP-150.

I’m going with the VMP as well, the twin-fan version. Have you had any issues as far as quality/performance with it?

 

[crjackson]

This provides for a higher flow rate of coolant through the cooling system while still allowing the tank to operate normally.

Do you actually see a measurable difference while daily driving? I mean, if I did the same, would the result be undeniably noticeable.

 

[DieHarder]

Do you actually see a measurable difference while daily driving? I mean, if I did the same, would the result be undeniably noticeable.

IMHO it bypasses a bottleneck for coolant flow. Instead of forcing all of the coolant thru the tank inlet/outlet the majority of the coolant flows thru the bypass with a small percentage that flows thru the tank and later joins up with the primary flow where the tank drain meets up with the other side of the bypass. Can't say about others but it certainly works for me. Don't have any data to point to however as I installed the bypass shortly after I finished the supercharger install and didn't have all of the monitoring gauges and sensors that I have now. My IAT's on average run around 21 deg difference; ambient (intake) vs compressed. So, right now it's winter and IAT's are averaging 60 Intake and ~81 compressed. They do vary with time of year and how hard I'm pushing her but unless it's really hot out or my water pumps acts up I never really see anything north of 110's to 120's. Of course the majority of my driving is touring so there's always air moving thru the HE.

 

[crjackson]

I’m always looking for ways to improve my rig. All the little things do add up. When I went with the Roush upper/lower high-flow grills, it made a dramatic cooling difference at highway speeds. I wouldn’t have expected much change, but I was pleasantly surprised.

AFAIK, I don’t have an IAT2 sensor to read compressed air temps. I could be wrong, but I don’t think that was included in my Roush kit.

 

[Laga]

Do you actually see a measurable difference while daily driving? I mean, if I did the same, would the result be undeniably noticeable.

My original setup from Edelbrock had a hose coming from the intercooler directly into the degas tank. You could remove the cover and see the coolant swirling around inside before exiting. Now, there is a slow stream of roughly 8 oz per minute by my best guess. The rest flows straight to the heat exchanger. The pump I use pushes 6 gallons per minute in the real world , according to DOB.

https://www.s197forum.com/threads/the-great-intercooler-water-pump-test.117785/

On average, coolant temps in the summer are 10° above ambient and IAT are 20° while cruising. I checked my last datalog from late November of ‘22. At WOT with 11 pounds of boost and ambient temperature in the 50’s, the IAT hit a max of 134°F. You can see the temperature probe in the photo above. I have an Interceptor gauge that monitors IAT.

Candy10, the VMP heat exchanger has worked flawlessly. While it’s a subject of debate, I prefer the fans on the heat exchanger.

 

[DieHarder]

I’m always looking for ways to improve my rig. All the little things do add up. When I went with the Roush upper/lower high-flow grills, it made a dramatic cooling difference at highway speeds. I wouldn’t have expected much change, but I was pleasantly surprised.

AFAIK, I don’t have an IAT2 sensor to read compressed air temps. I could be wrong, but I don’t think that was included in my Roush kit.

Not to worry. They're usually not included in most systems. I think some of the early Roush's had an air temp gauge that did monitor compressed IAT but no matter. All you need is a couple of spots to mount the sensors; usually a 3/8" NPT on the intake side (mine is screwed into the elbow for the supercharger); and the other (compression side) is on the lower manifold after the SC. I got an IAT guage kit from VLS https://www.revel-usa.com/vls/ic-temp which is dual system originally meant for a turbo but it serves my purposes fine. You should be able to find it for ~$230.

VLS IAT temp and AEM AFR/Boost gauge

IAT sensor on supercharger intake elbow

IAT sensor on compression side of supercharger manifold (DOB kit).