Intermittent heat

[2k05gt]

After a Head swap a few months ago I was seeing a high head temp but nothing to high 230's well since it's been in the 30's for a past few weeks I have been using the heat and I noticed something strange, as I drove the heat came out the vents like normal but when I stop at a light for a few minutes the vent slowly started to blow cold air, as soon as I start to drive again they would blow hot air again. Does anyone have any idea whats going on?

I have a new t-stat, water pump, ect.
2005 Block 2007 heads with 2007 crossover pipe and hoses.

 

[Greg Hazlett]

Your car wants my engine in it, that's what's going on!

Sorry...good luck with it.

 

[2k05gt]

Your car wants my engine in it, that's what's going on!

Sorry...good luck with it.

LOL I was thinking the same thing

 

[Greg Hazlett]

It would look good under your tree Christmas morning, LOL!

 

[bandit]

It would seem that at idle hot coolant isn't making it to the heater core. Could a partial blockage (severe restriction) in the coolant system cause such a problem? The theory being that as the engine revs up in normal driving the water pump creates enough pressure to overcome said blockage.

 

[SilentScope]

I would do a system flush and check your t-stat first. If that doesnt help, then you may have a blocked heater core.

PS: can you smell a sweet antifreeze smell in your cabin?

 

[Greg Hazlett]

He should be able to determine if it's the heater core by turning on the heat and if not heat in the car..well....

Oh the days of ripping the dash apart to replace that thing...ugh.

 

[SilentScope]

live somewhere where you get to drive your car 12 months of the year without having to use heat.....

just saying

 

[bandit]

I would do a system flush and check your t-stat first. If that doesnt help, then you may have a blocked heater core.

PS: can you smell a sweet antifreeze smell in your cabin?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't think the t-stat would have an intermittent impact on the heater core. If it was stuck open the heater would blow cold air, but the OP reports heat while driving.

 

[SilentScope]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't think the t-stat would have an intermittent impact on the heater core. If it was stuck open the heater would blow cold air, but the OP reports heat while driving.

yeah just thinking that it might be stuck sometimes or somethings blocking it, you never know, and its easy to check.

Is there a troubleshooting guide for this?

 

[2k05gt]

Not the T-Stat- It's New.. Water Pump - New

Not the Heater core, No leaks, not loosing anti-freeze and No Smell.

Heat works while driving but No heat at idle.

Replaced heads twice due to over heat issue. Drained engine twice in the last 3 months

I followed the diag test steps without a fix
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=180&viewfile=Engine%20Cooling.pdf

Reviewed the Service manual and Nothing stands out.
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=179&viewfile=Engine Cooling.pdf

My Over heating Problem looks like it's not the heads but some where else...
This is a never ending NIGHTMARE

 

[bandit]

Dumb question: You checked the coolant level....right?

 

[2k05gt]

Dumb question: You checked the coolant level....right?

Yes, the Coolent Level is fine.

Beleive Me I am just as Baffled as the rest of you.
This Car has Stumped 1 Ford Dealer, 2 Mustang Performance Shops and the S197forum for the past year.

 

[SilentScope]

Yes, the Coolent Level is fine.

Beleive Me I am just as Baffled as the rest of you.
This Car has Stumped 1 Ford Dealer, 2 Mustang Performance Shops and the S197forum for the past year.

Its definitely because your block is faulty. You should probably upgrade to an aluminator block with fully forged internals. Im pretty sure that will solve the problem.

I saw this dood on another forum with naaz and he did a swap and it sorted the problem out

 

[2k05gt]

Its definitely because your block is faulty. You should probably upgrade to an aluminator block with fully forged internals. Im pretty sure that will solve the problem.

I saw this dood on another forum with naaz and he did a swap and it sorted the problem out

Thats what Greg Hazlett said about using his engine, it would solve the problem. The second problem is Cost, Because I have 3 lazy adult kids who wont work and pay rent, they live off me (Insurance, Food, Electric, Ect.) One in Collage (I am paying for) and one who left but then came back with 2 kids that I am now raising My son is the only one working but he brought his fiancee to live in the basement apt. because of all this shit I can't fix my own car.

So some new items in the Classified section.
1 - 25 year old Female Slim build with 2 toddlers (Cheap)
1 - 24 year old Female Collage Educated but can't drive (Cheap)
1 - 23 year old Male Hard worker but in spare time plays WoW for hours on end (Cheap)

Will Ship to lower 48 Including Boca Raton ---- LOL

 

[SilentScope]

Thats what Greg Hazlett said about using his engine, it would solve the problem. The second problem is Cost, Because I have 3 lazy adult kids who wont work and pay rent, they live off me (Insurance, Food, Electric, Ect.) One in Collage (I am paying for) and one who left but then came back with 2 kids that I am now raising My son is the only one working but he brought his fiancee to live in the basement apt. because of all this shit I can't fix my own car.

So some new items in the Classified section.
1 - 25 year old Female Slim build with 2 toddlers (Cheap)
1 - 24 year old Female Collage Educated but can't drive (Cheap)
1 - 23 year old Male Hard worker but in spare time plays WoW for hours on end (Cheap)

Will Ship to lower 48 Including Boca Raton ---- LOL

Group buy anyone?

 

[white05gt]

If I read this right, the car blows hot air while driving but not when sitting still at an idle? Have you tried to rev it up when sitting at the stop light to see if it improves, maybe the pump isn't moving enough water through the heater core when it's at an idle. It's just a thought, hard to diagnose over the internet.

 

[SilentScope]

very good point there. Is it speed or rev related?

 

[MLC40]

Please post pics of the girls... j/k

Thats what Greg Hazlett said about using his engine, it would solve the problem. The second problem is Cost, Because I have 3 lazy adult kids who wont work and pay rent, they live off me (Insurance, Food, Electric, Ect.) One in Collage (I am paying for) and one who left but then came back with 2 kids that I am now raising My son is the only one working but he brought his fiancee to live in the basement apt. because of all this shit I can't fix my own car.

So some new items in the Classified section.
1 - 25 year old Female Slim build with 2 toddlers (Cheap)
1 - 24 year old Female Collage Educated but can't drive (Cheap)
1 - 23 year old Male Hard worker but in spare time plays WoW for hours on end (Cheap)

Will Ship to lower 48 Including Boca Raton ---- LOL

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

Possibly the blend door actuator. I also found this on another site

The air distribution is no longer a [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]vacuum [/COLOR][COLOR=blue! important]system[/COLOR][/COLOR]

. The SJB controls 3 actuators and a recirculation door motor (for fresh air). The actuator for floor air is located just to the drivers side of the centerstack inboard of the instument cluster it is connector C234. It has 5 wires so I would assume that it's a 6 wire [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]connector[/COLOR][/COLOR] with one empty slot. Wiring is as follows:

RD-LG V REF ACTUATOR

RD-WH V REF GND

YE-LB PANEL/FLOOR FEEDBACK

GY-LB PANEL/FLOOR CCW

BR-WH PANEL/[COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]FLOOR[/COLOR][/COLOR] CW

Pinpoint Test B: Incorrect/Erratic Direction Of Airflow From Outlet(s)

Normal Operation
Under normal operation, to rotate the mode door actuator clockwise, the EMTC module supplies voltage to the BLEND, DEFROST and FLOOR/PANEL mode door actuator motors through the door actuator feed B circuits, and supplies ground through the door actuator feed A [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]circuits[/COLOR][/COLOR]

. To rotate the mode door actuator counterclockwise, the EMTC module reverses the voltage and ground circuits.

The mode door actuator feedback [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]resistors[/COLOR][/COLOR] are supplied a ground from the EMTC module by the mode door actuator return circuits and a 5-volt reference voltage on the mode door actuator reference circuits. The EMTC module reads the voltage on the mode door actuator feedback circuits to determine the mode door actuator position by the position of the actuator feedback resistor wiper arm.

Door actuator feed B circuits
Blend — 1376 (BK/LB)
Defrost — 1137 (YE/LG)
Floor/Panel — 1129 (BN/WH)
Door actuator feed A circuits
Blend — 1375 (PK/YE)
Defrost — 1136 (RD/WH)
Floor/Panel — 1128 (GY/LB)
Door actuator return circuits
Blend — 438 (RD/WH)
Defrost — 438 (RD/WH)
Floor/Panel — 438 (RD/WH)
Door actuator reference circuits
Blend — 436 (RD/LG)
Defrost — 436 (RD/LG)
Floor/Panel — 436 (RD/LG)
Door actuator feedback circuits
Blend — 437 (YE/LG)
Defrost — 1982 (LB/BK)
Floor/Panel — 435 (YE/LB)
Possible Causes
An open, short to voltage, ground or together in door actuator open, close, return, reference or feedback circuits
Blend, air inlet, defrost and floor/panel mode door actuator motor
EATC module
Manual climate control module
Stuck or bound linkage or door

PINPOINT TEST B: INCORRECT/ERRATIC DIRECTION OF AIRFLOW FROM OUTLET(S)
Test Step Result / Action to Take
B1 CHECK THE AIRFLOW
Key in ON position.
Check the air discharge temperature in full COOL and full WARM and airflow in the PANEL, DEFROST and FLOOR modes.
Is the air discharge temperature and airflow correct in each setting?
Yes
The system is operating normally.

No
If the airflow is from the floor only or panel only in any mode except OFF and DEFROST and airflow is from defrost only on DEFROST mode, follow diagnostics for floor/panel door actuator. GO to B2 .

If the airflow is from the defrost only in all modes except OFF or from floor/panel in DEFROST mode, follow diagnostics for defrost door actuator. GO to B2 .

If the temperature control is inoperative/does not operate correctly, follow diagnostics for the blend door actuator. GO to B2 .

If the RECIRC button does not change the air inlet door position, Go To Pinpoint Test A .
B2 CHECK THE FEEDBACK POTENTIOMETER TOTAL RESISTANCE
Disconnect: EMTC Module C294a.
Disconnect: For Floor/Panel Door Actuator: Temperature Blend Door Actuator C289 and Defrost Door Actuator C232.
Disconnect: For Defrost Door Actuator: Temperature Blend Door Actuator C289 and Floor/Panel Door Actuator C234.
Disconnect: For Blend Door Actuator: Defrost Door Actuator C232 and Floor/Panel Door Actuator C234.
Remove the door actuator and disengage the actuator driveshaft from the actuator door.
Mark the door actuator driveshaft position.
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-5, circuit 436 (RD/LG) and EMTC module C294a-15, circuit 438 (RD/WH).

Is the resistance between 5,000 and 6,000 ohms?
Yes
GO to B3 .

No
If the resistance is greater than 6,000 ohms, GO to B5 . If the resistance is less than 5,000 ohms, GO to B7 .
B3 CHECK THE [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]POTENTIOMETER[/COLOR][/COLOR] LOW SIDE RESISTANCE
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-15, circuit 438 (RD/WH) and the following:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-16, circuit 435 (YE/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-17, circuit 1982 (LB/BK).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-18, circuit 437 (YE/LG).


Is the resistance between 250 and 5,500 ohms?
Yes
GO to B4 .

No
If the resistance is greater than 5,500 ohms, GO to B8 . If the resistance is less than 250 ohms, GO to B9 .
B4 CHECK THE POTENTIOMETER HIGH SIDE RESISTANCE
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-5, circuit 436 (RD/LG) and the following:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-16, circuit 435 (YE/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-17, circuit 1982 (LB/BK).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-18, circuit 437 (YE/LG).


Is the resistance between 250 and 5,500 ohms?
Yes
GO to B11 .

No
If the resistance is greater than 5,500 ohms, INSTALL a new door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation. If the resistance is less than 250 ohms, GO to B10 .
B5 CHECK CIRCUIT 436 (RD/LG) FOR AN OPEN
Disconnect: Floor/Panel Door Actuator C234, Defrost Door Actuator C232 or Blend Door Actuator C289.
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-5, circuit 436 (RD/LG) and the following:
For floor/panel: floor/panel door actuator C234-3, circuit 436 (RD/LG).
For defrost: defrost door actuator C232-3, circuit 436 (RD/LG).
For blend: blend door actuator C289-3, circuit 436 (RD/LG).


Is the resistance less than 5 ohms?
Yes
GO to B6 .

No
REPAIR circuit 436 (RD/LG) for an open. TEST the system for normal operation.
B6 CHECK THE ACTUATOR RETURN CIRCUIT 438 (RD/WH) FOR AN OPEN
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-15, circuit 438 (RD/WH) and the following:
For floor/panel: floor/panel door actuator C234-2, circuit 438 (RD/WH).
For defrost: defrost door actuator C232-2, circuit 438 (RD/WH).
For blend: blend door actuator C289-2, circuit 438 (RD/WH).


Is the resistance less than 5 ohms?
Yes
INSTALL a new door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
REPAIR circuit 438 (RD/WH) for an open. TEST the system for normal operation.
B7 CHECK CIRCUITS 438 (RD/WH) AND 436 (RD/LG) FOR A SHORT TOGETHER
Disconnect: Floor/Panel Door Actuator C234, Defrost Door Actuator C232 or Blend Door Actuator C289.
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-5, circuit 436 (RD/LG) and EMTC module C294a-15, circuit 438 (RD/WH).

Is the resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
INSTALL a new door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
REPAIR circuit 438 (RD/WH) and circuit 436 (RD/LG) for a short together. TEST the system for normal operation.
B8 CHECK CIRCUITS 435 (YE/LB), 1982 (LB/BK) OR 437 (YE/LG) FOR AN OPEN
Disconnect: Floor/Panel Door Actuator C234, Defrost Door Actuator C232 or Blend Door Actuator C289.
Measure the resistance between the following:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-16, circuit 435 (YE/LB) and floor/panel door actuator C234-4, circuit 435 (YE/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-17, circuit 1982 (LB/BK) and defrost door actuator C232-4, circuit 1982 (LB/BK).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-18, circuit 437 (YE/LG) and floor door actuator C289-4, circuit 437 (YE/LG).


Is the resistance less than 5 ohms?
Yes
[COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]INSTALL[/COLOR][/COLOR] a new door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
REPAIR circuit 435 (YE/LB), 1982 (LB/BK) or 437 (YE/LG) for an open. TEST the system for normal operation.
B9 CHECK CIRCUIT 438 (RD/WH) FOR A SHORT TO CIRCUITS 435 (YE/LB), 1982 (LB/BK) OR 437 (YE/LG)
Disconnect: Floor/Panel Door Actuator C234, Defrost Door Actuator C232 or Blend Door Actuator C289.
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-15, circuit 438 (RD/WH) and the following:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-16, circuit 435 (YE/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-17, circuit 1982 (LB/BK).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-18, circuit 437 (YE/LG).


Is the resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
INSTALL a new door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
REPAIR circuit 438 (RD/WH) and circuits 435 (YE/LB), 1982 (LB/BK) or 437 (YE/LG) for a short together. TEST the system for normal operation.
B10 CHECK CIRCUIT 436 (RD/LG) FOR A SHORT TO CIRCUITS 435 (YE/LB), 1982 (LB/BK) OR CIRCUIT 437 (YE/LG)
Disconnect: Floor/Panel Door Actuator C234, Defrost Door Actuator C232 or Blend Door Actuator C289.
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-5, circuit 436 (RD/LG) and the following:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-16, circuit 435 (YE/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-17, circuit 1982 (LB/BK).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-18, circuit 437 (YE/LG).


Is the resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
INSTALL a new door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
REPAIR circuits 436 (RD/LG) and circuits 435 (YE/LB), 1982 (LB/BK) or 437 (YE/LG) for a short together. TEST the system for normal operation.
B11 CHECK CIRCUITS 436 (RD/LG), 437 (YE/LG), 435 (YE/LB) OR 1982 (LB/BK) FOR A SHORT TO GROUND
Disconnect: Floor/Panel Door Actuator C234, Defrost Door Actuator C232 or Blend Door Actuator C289.
Measure the resistance between ground and the following:
EMTC module C294a-5, circuit 436 (RD/LG).
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-16, circuit 435 (YE/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-17, circuit 1982 (LB/BK).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-18, circuit 437 (YE/LG).


Is the resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
GO to B12 .

No
REPAIR circuit(s) for a short to ground. TEST the system for normal operation.
B12 CHECK CIRCUITS 438 (RD/WH), 437 (YE/LG), 435 (YE/LB) OR 1982 (LB/BK) FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE
Key in ON position.
Measure the voltage between ground and the following:
EMTC module C294a-15, circuit 438 (RD/WH).
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-16, circuit 435 (YE/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-17, circuit 1982 (LB/BK).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-18, circuit 437 (YE/LG).


Is voltage present?
Yes
REPAIR circuit(s) for a short to voltage. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
GO to B13 .
B13 CHECK THE DOOR ACTUATOR CLOCKWISE OPERATION
Connect a fused jumper wire between EMTC module C294a-26, circuit 1566 (RD/YE) and:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-20, circuit 1129 (BN/WH).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-25, circuit 1137 (YE/LG).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-7, circuit 1376 (BK/LB).


Connect a second fused jumper wire between EMTC module C294a-1, circuit 1205 (BK) and:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-19, circuit 1128 (GY/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-24, circuit 1136 (RD/WH).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-6, circuit 1375 (PK/YE).


Does the actuator motor move in the clockwise direction?
Yes
GO to B14 .

No
GO to B15 .
B14 CHECK THE DOOR ACTUATOR COUNTERCLOCKWISE OPERATION
Connect a fused jumper wire between EMTC module C294a-1, circuit 1205 (BK) and:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-20, circuit 1129 (BN/WH).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-25, circuit 1137 (YE/LG).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-7, circuit 1376 (BK/LB).


Connect a second fused jumper wire between EMTC module C294a-26, circuit 1566 (RD/YE) and:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-19, circuit 1128 (GY/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-24, circuit 1136 (RD/WH).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-6, circuit 1375 (PK/YE).


Does the actuator motor move in the counterclockwise direction?
Yes
INSPECT for binding or broken door and linkage. If no condition is found, INSTALL a new EATC module or EMTC module. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
GO to B15 .
B15 CHECK THE ACTUATOR MOTOR DRIVE CIRCUITS FOR AN OPEN
Disconnect: Floor/Panel Door Actuator C234, Defrost Door Actuator C232 or Blend Door Actuator C289.
Measure the resistance between:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-20, circuit 1129 (BN/WH) and floor/panel door actuator C234-6, circuit 1129 (BN/WH).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-25, circuit 1137 (YE/LG) and defrost door actuator C232-6, circuit 1997 BN/YE).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-7, circuit 1376 (BK/LB) and blend door actuator C289-6, circuit 1376 (BK/LB).


Measure the resistance between:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-19, circuit 1128 (GY/LB) and floor/panel door actuator C234-1, circuit 1128 (GY/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-24, circuit 1136 (RD/WH) and defrost door actuator C232-1, circuit 1136 (RD/WH).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-6, circuit 1375 (PK/YE) and blend door actuator C289-1, circuit 1375 (PK/YE).


Are the resistances less than 5 ohms?
Yes
GO to B16 .

No
REPAIR the circuit(s) for an open. TEST the system for normal operation.
B16 CHECK THE ACTUATOR MOTOR DRIVE CIRCUITS FOR A SHORT TO GROUND
Measure the resistance between ground and:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-20, circuit 1129 (BN/WH).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-25, circuit 1137 (YE/LG).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-7, circuit 1376 (BK/LB).


Measure the resistance between ground and:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-19, circuit 1128 (GY/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-24, circuit 1136 (RD/WH).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-6, circuit 1375 (PK/YE).


Are the resistances greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
GO to B17 .

No
REPAIR the circuit(s) for a short to ground. TEST the system for normal operation.
B17 CHECK THE ACTUATOR MOTOR DRIVE CIRCUITS FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE
Key in ON position.
Measure the voltage between ground and:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-20, circuit 1129 (BN/WH).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-25, circuit 1137 (YE/LG).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-7, circuit 1376 (BK/LB).


Measure the voltage between ground and:
For floor/panel door actuator: EMTC module C294a-19, circuit 1128 (GY/LB).
For defrost door actuator: EMTC module C294a-24, circuit 1136 (RD/WH).
For blend door actuator: EMTC module C294a-6, circuit 1375 (PK/YE).


Is voltage present?
Yes
REPAIR the circuit(s) for a short to voltage. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
GO to B18 .
B18 CHECK THE ACTUATOR MOTOR DRIVE CIRCUITS FOR A SHORT TOGETHER
Key in OFF position.
NOTE: For floor/panel door actuator:
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-19, circuit 1128 (GY/LB) and EMTC module C294a-20, circuit 1129 (BN/WH).

NOTE: For defrost door actuator:
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-24, circuit 1136 (RD/WH) and EMTC module C294a-25, circuit 1137 (YE/LG).

NOTE: For blend door actuator:
Measure the resistance between EMTC module C294a-6, circuit 1375 (PK/YE) and EMTC module C294a-7, circuit 1376 (BK/LB).

Is the resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
INSPECT for binding or broken linkage. If no condition is found, INSTALL a new door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
REPAIR circuit(s) for a short together. TEST the system for normal operation.