Is this a fair price?

[Andy@Livernois]

Damn this guy is pretty cocky about his company (Livernois). Definitely a good company and all but 850? Come on now

I must disagree. I am not being cocky what-so-ever, I am just stating facts. I am just stating that there is more that goes on than the simple dollar. Many people perceive they have a good tune and maybe that's all that matters to most people, but you can have a tune that drives and performs fine but still isn't correct. We spend on average 16 hours on a tune, at 850 that's just a little over 50/hr. Now look at a place that charges 300 and is done in 3 hours. They are charging you almost double per hour. We don't mind spending the time and hurting the per hour rate because we want it perfect the first time. How many times have people here had a dyno tune, then have to send logs back and forth to get it "perfect", or they have to drive back and have quirks straightened out? We want that to be the rare occasion because to us it isn't acceptable. Good enough, isn't good enough to us.

Andy skipped right over this question. Wonder why?

Skipping would imply it was intentional. I had to gather information. To my knowledge there is one mail order tune we provided that unfortunately has failed the #8. We had gone the longest out of any major tuner without issues to my knowledge but even we have been bit by one. I think there isn't a tuner that has done more than one or 2 5.0 cars that hasn't had one fail. It is unfortunate, and even further steps are being taken to prevent any future chances of this happening.

 

[DIB5.0]

I know VMP or Amazon has not had an #8 go.

 

[BAKnBLK2010]

Skipping would imply it was intentional. I had to gather information. To my knowledge there is one mail order tune we provided that unfortunately has failed the #8. We had gone the longest out of any major tuner without issues to my knowledge but even we have been bit by one. I think there isn't a tuner that has done more than one or 2 5.0 cars that hasn't had one fail. It is unfortunate, and even further steps are being taken to prevent any future chances of this happening.

Thanks for your honesty. That's all I was looking for and you and Livernois have earned my respect and hopefully the respect of the community. As far as I know you are the only vendor to publicly admit one of these failures and we know there have been many.

 

[Bodam]

Andy, I've been talking to Rick about an e-mail tune, and I'm close to pulling the trigger with y'all.

My question is, what changes have you made to your tunes that will prevent the #8 issue? We've all talked this thing to death, but not once have I heard what has been done to change the tunes to be safer on the #8.

Not pulling you on the carpet, I was just wondering. It's hard to choose a tuner, because y'all say the right things and swear up and down that your tunes are the best, but to the consumer, there is no way of really knowing.

Feel free to PM if it's easier, or have Rick e-mail me

 

[Andy@Livernois]

Thanks for your honesty. That's all I was looking for and you and Livernois have earned my respect and hopefully the respect of the community. As far as I know you are the only vendor to publicly admit one of these failures and we know there have been many.

ill put it this way, there are way more than I think anyone wants to admit. We were the only ones to step forward and take preventative steps when the #8 issue started to come to light. We take pride in what we do, and feel we step up to the plate when issues happen. We are human just like anyone else, we are always learning, evolving, changing, but we feel that when the unfortunate happens it does no one proper service to ignore it.

 

[Andy@Livernois]

Andy, I've been talking to Rick about an e-mail tune, and I'm close to pulling the trigger with y'all.

My question is, what changes have you made to your tunes that will prevent the #8 issue? We've all talked this thing to death, but not once have I heard what has been done to change the tunes to be safer on the #8.

Not pulling you on the carpet, I was just wondering. It's hard to choose a tuner, because y'all say the right things and swear up and down that your tunes are the best, but to the consumer, there is no way of really knowing.

Feel free to PM if it's easier, or have Rick e-mail me

I don't know as I am not a calibrator. The only thing I for sure know about tuning is I don't know enough to tune yet Rick is out of the office due to a loss in the family, but I will make sure he sees your post when he returns to the office.

 

[Bodam]

I don't know as I am not a calibrator. The only thing I for sure know about tuning is I don't know enough to tune yet Rick is out of the office due to a loss in the family, but I will make sure he sees your post when he returns to the office.

Thanks, I also e-mailed him.

Can you find out what they want in a data log, so I can get one done this weekend?

 

[Lee's05GT]

i say 500 is right for power adder, 250 for n/a

thats what most charge. which i think is fair.

 

[Seer]

Andy, I've been talking to Rick about an e-mail tune, and I'm close to pulling the trigger with y'all.

My question is, what changes have you made to your tunes that will prevent the #8 issue? We've all talked this thing to death, but not once have I heard what has been done to change the tunes to be safer on the #8.

Not pulling you on the carpet, I was just wondering. It's hard to choose a tuner, because y'all say the right things and swear up and down that your tunes are the best, but to the consumer, there is no way of really knowing.

Feel free to PM if it's easier, or have Rick e-mail me

Rick made a post about 3 months ago, saying they were sending out revision tunes that set the knock sensors back to stock. If I am not mistaken Livernois was one of the first major tuner to do this or at least publically state this.

I can tell you from comparing my various tunes through data logging, my Livernois tune is not commanding timing as quickly and as agressively as my old Lund tune was, which in result was causing knock retard above 4500 rpm till about 6200 rpm of about 5 degrees.

The AFR was roughly the same between my Livernois and Lund tunes, holding steady on 12.4-12.6 through the power band.

 

[Racingtheburg]

I bought my xcal2 from Brenspeed in 2007 with their preloaded 3 tunes. Have no issues what so ever and my car gets around 23-24mpg mixed with 4.30 gear 28 inch DR's 5spd NA.

2 years later I was on the dyno for R&D for a header company to compare numbers from what I already had and everything looked perfect. The two tuners there said they wouldnt touch it everything was spot on.

WARNING: I might of been a lucky case but as for right now VERY happy with not messing with my tune from 2007 and get great performance and MPG.

Could Livernois do better? Probably! You gotta pay to play fellas! If you want the best you have to shell it out. I'm cheap so Andy sorry I probably wont be seeing you anytime soon, but maybe the 27mpg tune might be worth it lol if the power is higher.

 

[Andy@Livernois]

I bought my xcal2 from Brenspeed in 2007 with their preloaded 3 tunes. Have no issues what so ever and my car gets around 23-24mpg mixed with 4.30 gear 28 inch DR's 5spd NA.

2 years later I was on the dyno for R&D for a header company to compare numbers from what I already had and everything looked perfect. The two tuners there said they wouldnt touch it everything was spot on.

WARNING: I might of been a lucky case but as for right now VERY happy with not messing with my tune from 2007 and get great performance and MPG.

Could Livernois do better? Probably! You gotta pay to play fellas! If you want the best you have to shell it out. I'm cheap so Andy sorry I probably wont be seeing you anytime soon, but maybe the 27mpg tune might be worth it lol if the power is higher.

I don't hold it against anyone for them saying they opt for a cheaper price. That is not what I have issue with. My issue is stating we are too high, or gouging, or not worth it. That is what I have contention with. As I said, we can't be everything to everyone. I wish we could, but it's not realistic. somewhere compromises would have to be made in quality to get more cars done in a quicker time. That is something we would not allow ourselves to do.

 

[Racingtheburg]

With the money you guys spend in equipment, mechanics, R&D, etc. I dont blame you for charging what you do. All I hear is good things about your shop.

I still love the video with your Pro 5.0 car going to BK. Now thats a streetable tune! lol

 

[bmaxwell]

I must disagree. I am not being cocky what-so-ever, I am just stating facts. I am just stating that there is more that goes on than the simple dollar. Many people perceive they have a good tune and maybe that's all that matters to most people, but you can have a tune that drives and performs fine but still isn't correct. We spend on average 16 hours on a tune, at 850 that's just a little over 50/hr. Now look at a place that charges 300 and is done in 3 hours. They are charging you almost double per hour. We don't mind spending the time and hurting the per hour rate because we want it perfect the first time. How many times have people here had a dyno tune, then have to send logs back and forth to get it "perfect", or they have to drive back and have quirks straightened out? We want that to be the rare occasion because to us it isn't acceptable. Good enough, isn't good enough to us.

Ok I gotcha. Well sounds like it is an exceptional tune, sorry for saying you were being cocky lol I am sure I would have my company's back and state facts if I were in your shoes.

 

[Andy@Livernois]

Ok I gotcha. Well sounds like it is an exceptional tune, sorry for saying you were being cocky lol I am sure I would have my company's back and state facts if I were in your shoes.

it just touches close to home on this because I have been the path of trying to save money and it costs me in the long run. Especially in the area of a tune.

 

[bmaxwell]

Yea I got a 250$ tune and I will admit the driveability is not spot on but it doesn't bother me too bad. I plan on going somewhere around here in the Dallas area next time. Hopefully they do a great job here!