Lets Talk: SCCA and Poly Bushings

[Roadracer350]

Is E Mod a novice style or is it a run what you brung?

 

[JesseW.]

run whatcha brung, with some rules, as a guy that handles tech at his local SCCA region, DOESN'T ANYONE BOTHER TO READ THE FUCKING RULEBOOK! its free and online, if you didn't build your car for a particular class, it still shouldn't be hard to figure out where you belong, even I did it with no problem at all before I entered my first autox

 

[Whiskey11]

Is E Mod a novice style or is it a run what you brung?

It's one of the most prepared classes in the SCCA and it is far from anything Novice. Again, there really isn't any "Novice" class aside from any local region's "novice" class. The least prepared class is Stock soon to be Street (Same rules, street tires) from Street it goes to Street Touring, then Street Prepared then Street Modified then Prepared and finally Modified.

 

[JesseW.]

CP has a better PAX then SM, so its good for mustangs to skip SM entirely unless they are forced induction

 

[Roadracer350]

Screw it. I will just do NASA TT amd track days. Everytime we all talk SCCA someone always gets butthurt and everyone complaines the rules suck bla bla bla but they will never change them. In local and regional motorcycle road racing you have 2 classifications. Novice an expert. Inside you have the exact same classes A Superbike, Formula 1, SuperStock etc. Novices are yellow plates and expert are white plates. 10 times easier than this car stuff. Maybe the SCCA should wake up and take note of all the stupid asinine rules they have turning people off. I wouldn't mind doing E Mod. Start in the top class and work your way up from their. That's what I did when I started in bikes. Jumped right into A Superbike and Formula 1. Both classes were run what you brung just no nitrous and no turbos. Oh well...

 

[csamsh]

Screw it. I will just do NASA TT amd track days. Everytime we all talk SCCA someone always gets butthurt and everyone complaines the rules suck bla bla bla but they will never change them. In local and regional motorcycle road racing you have 2 classifications. Novice an expert. Inside you have the exact same classes A Superbike, Formula 1, SuperStock etc. Novices are yellow plates and expert are white plates. 10 times easier than this car stuff. Maybe the SCCA should wake up and take note of all the stupid asinine rules they have turning people off. I wouldn't mind doing E Mod. Start in the top class and work your way up from their. That's what I did when I started in bikes. Jumped right into A Superbike and Formula 1. Both classes were run what you brung just no nitrous and no turbos. Oh well...

welcome to the joys of soloII classing. IIRC the SCCA has a meeting about waking up sometime in 2016, at which point they'll decide they shouldn't rush into things.

 

[BMR Tech]

welcome to the joys of soloII classing. IIRC the SCCA has a meeting about waking up sometime in 2016, at which point they'll decide they shouldn't rush into things.

Ell Oh Ell

 

[Norm Peterson]

Screw it. I will just do NASA TT amd track days. Everytime we all talk SCCA someone always gets butthurt and everyone complaines the rules suck bla bla bla but they will never change them. In local and regional motorcycle road racing you have 2 classifications. Novice an expert. Inside you have the exact same classes A Superbike, Formula 1, SuperStock etc. Novices are yellow plates and expert are white plates. 10 times easier than this car stuff. Maybe the SCCA should wake up and take note of all the stupid asinine rules they have turning people off. I wouldn't mind doing E Mod. Start in the top class and work your way up from their. That's what I did when I started in bikes. Jumped right into A Superbike and Formula 1. Both classes were run what you brung just no nitrous and no turbos. Oh well...

I don't think looking at driver experience matters nearly as much in the "one car all by itself" nature of autocrossing as it does in wheel to wheel events, so it doesn't make sense to divide the classes up that way. The situation where an experienced driver could ever find a newbie right beside him simply doesn't happen, short of the situation where at least one driver is grossly, horribly off course.

There's a huge number of classes already - over 40 not counting the Ladies class counterparts to most of those. Potentially adding another 40 would be insanity from an organizational point of view.

My best guess is that SCCA looks at car classing from a scrutineer's point of view rather than looking at the totality of a car and driver entry. That's one end of the scale, most likely inherited from the early club racing side and about as far opposite as you can get from the age and novice/intermediate/expert/cruiser classification of ABA and NBL BMX racing. There, the matter of what bicycle and how it was equipped was irrelevant beyond meeting the appropriate wheel size definition and the necessary padding requirements (and if you suspect that I eventually took advantage of that in a manner that SCCA would have probably been philosophically opposed to had they been in charge, you'd be on the right track).


FWIW, there's nothing stopping you from bringing whatever you built and running it wherever it fits. Been there, done that, more often than not.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Hey Norm, what is your opinion (since you are here! ) on the modifications to the bushings and the life span of the bushings?

Are you sure that the length difference is only a couple of thousandths? The pictures make it look more like a couple of hundredths. Either way, I'd still want to see the sleeve 10 or maybe 20 thousandths longer than the poly.

The LCA bushings that I modified for a 1979 Chevy Malibu with 350+ HP and torque and 3.73's in the axle lasted over 3 full seasons regionally plus at least 6 years of year round daily driving. They were modified considerably in excess of where yours are - some of the holes I drilled actually intersected, giving me slots rather than discrete circular holes, and I tapered the flattish cone shaping on the bushing ends in almost to the OD of the inner sleeves. I wish I'd pulled an LCA before I sold that car off to see what condition the bushings were in, but last I drove it they weren't bad enough for any odd behaviors (like axle steer under acceleration or instability under braking) to show up. I may still have a little sketch somewhere.


Norm

 

[Whiskey11]

Are you sure that the length difference is only a couple of thousandths? The pictures make it look more like a couple of hundredths. Either way, I'd still want to see the sleeve 10 or maybe 20 thousandths longer than the poly.

The LCA bushings that I modified for a 1979 Chevy Malibu with 350+ HP and torque and 3.73's in the axle lasted over 3 full seasons regionally plus at least 6 years of year round daily driving. They were modified considerably in excess of where yours are - some of the holes I drilled actually intersected, giving me slots rather than discrete circular holes, and I tapered the flattish cone shaping on the bushing ends in almost to the OD of the inner sleeves. I wish I'd pulled an LCA before I sold that car off to see what condition the bushings were in, but last I drove it they weren't bad enough for any odd behaviors (like axle steer under acceleration or instability under braking) to show up. I may still have a little sketch somewhere.


Norm

Alright, before I put them on I will see if there is anything I can do to shorten the Poly so the sleeves are slightly longer. Unfortunately I do not have access to any precise equipement such as a lathe with the proper attachments necessary to machine this stuff with any precision so they may get a bit uglier as right now I am leaning torwards a belt sander.

The ugly part is going.to be the condition of the belt when this Prothane bushing grease hits it...

 

[Whiskey11]

I put the modified rear lower control arms in. I was fully expecting more noise coming into the cabin and there is a slight increase in impact harshness but gear noise and squeaking are non-existent. Rear of the car still articulates (yay! Mission accomplished!) and it does feel a little bit stiffer but I can't tell if that is because of the bushings or the fact that I put my Strano Parts/Hellwigg 25mm rear swaybar back on. I'm going to attribute it to the nearly double swaybar rate and not the bushings. The good news is that the driveline noise calmed down a lot. I think the removal of the slack in the control arms minimized the fore/aft movement that might have caused my driveshaft noises. I'm happy as hell about that!

The install took about 10 minutes too. I guess the Torque Arm kept the axle from rotating far enough to make it a pain in the rear to install them. They slid right into place so it was easy going.

The stock arms are SHOT. The bushings were cracked around the half moons in the arms and they were almost loose. I didn't try removing those bushings too but it did cross my mind!

No pictures of the install because they would be pretty boring!