Might be go big or go home time on my '06

cavero

forum member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Posts
665
Reaction score
93
Location
NoVA
Been sitting on this one a while, ~ a year. It started with a late night oil change, and under the garage lights I saw glitter in the oil -- a concerning amount of it. But the engine was running fine. No noises, stumbles, etc. Just as smooth as ever. But I was worried about it after one hard pull onto the highway getting off of midnight shift one morning before the engine was fully warmed up. So I sent in the oil for analysis, saying I was worried that it might be from my aftermarket cams and they said
Metal large enough to see is too big for our spectrometer to read, but on the microscopic level, we didn't find any big red flags when it comes to engine wear. Universal averages for this kind of Ford are based on 4,700 miles. Iron (from steel parts, including the cam) probably could've been a little lower for the shorter run, but we would hesitate to call a problem based on this level. If visible metal persists, iron heads upward in analysis, and/or you start hearing unusual noises/having operational issues, our tune might change. A trace (TR) of fuel is harmless.

I decided to keep it safe and change the oil every 500 mi and drive it like a Prius....alright alright....drive it like a normal car and keep the RPMs under 3500 and never go more than 1/2 throttle. Things were going pretty well with that plan. The car continued to sound normal, the glitter in the oil was basically gone, just what you could attribute to remnants from the original anomaly.

Still had been talking to my local shop about a rebuild just in case and they'd been lagging for months on a quote (don't blame them, they've got a ton business and they were short handed for a bit).

So last month I had this brilliant idea -- I said screw it, the car's either fine or it's not. I took it on a 600 mi road trip, mostly highway and still driving it easy. I let the oil go up to 1500 miles to get a longer term reading and sent it in for analysis again (should get that back any day now). Well, the verdict came in. And fine its not. The engine developed a tick a couple weeks ago, so I brought it into my trusted shop to see if they could find it. It didn't take them long:

image0.jpeg

Had a chat with them about it, Here's what they said:

"If you look closely at the cam, second and fourth lobe from the right, you'll note the grey pattern starting to develop on the second. That's the hardened surface starting to wear off On the fourth it has changed to a rough texture indicating high wear through the hardened surface. Several others are starting to show the grey pattern too. "

We talked about a few different options, and he's working on quotes to handle each of them. But here they are in order of $$$

1. Just replace the cams and followers. It'll get rid of the tick and I can pray that the metal in the oil didn't cause premature wear on anything else. The oil reports so far at least support the idea the bearings are still OK.

2. Replace the engine with a rebuilt stock 3V.
There's a company (forgetting the name right now) that will sell a turn-key engine with a 100k mile warranty, but then I'm back down to stock power levels. And it's been a loooooong time for me since 255 rhwp was good enough. It may end up being 2/3 the cost of the next option.

3. Rebuild the motor. For the labor cost around here, we'd be looking at forged internals in prep for a supercharger down the line. Some builds they've done will support 800 HP, though I don't think I'd ever wanna go that nuts.

4. We didn't talk about this one-- Coyote swap. Certainly wouldn't be cheap. Even just the engine is $10k and that's before mounts, harnesses, control packs, exhaust, air conditioning kits, etc

It's a lot to consider right now, although #2 I think is pretty much out. For what they thought it was going to cost I think it'd be pretty dumb to spend that kind of cash and lose that much power.

Option #1 is the cheapest but still a risk. Option #3 would start getting me closer to what I originally planned for the car 17 years ago -- supercharged.

There's also an Option #5, which would be to fix the tick by reverting the cams & intake to stock (kept the parts), and just sell the car. I don't like that option for a bunch of reasons. Sentimental value obviously #1. Also have a ton of work into the car, lots of mods and I really love the way it drives. It'd be pretty hard to find another car that ticks all the boxes for me the way this one does... especially for a reasonable price. I've been looking around a little bit and used car prices are still way up there (saw a '12 BOSS 302 for $40k! 11 years old for $40k! GT350 -- ~$55k for a 2017)
 

cavero

forum member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Posts
665
Reaction score
93
Location
NoVA
So as far as details on the cams go:

Comp Camps XFI SPR (127400)
Installed 3/12/2016
Miles on them: 26,135 (installed at 90k, got 116k on it now)
Oil: 5W-20 synthetic. Most of the time it was Mobil 1 High Mileage, but I took it to a local place a few times when I didn't have time and they put some sort of synthetic 5W-20 in it.
Track hours: none
Hard pulls/launches: yeah a few, I enjoyed them a fair amount but I didn't beat on it.

Have been discussing this a little bit on another forum too and got some good starting advice.

To try to protect the engine right now, I've basically parked the car. I'm going to be putting on a magnetic drain plug and stick some magnets to the oil filter. Also upping to synth 5W-30. My brother was suggesting putting in some Lucas oil stabilizer to give the cams a better coating, I'm hold off on that for right now until I get some opinions on it.

I also reached out to Comp Cams to see what they might advise. The years/miles are definitely past their warranty but who knows what they might say.
 

cavero

forum member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Posts
665
Reaction score
93
Location
NoVA
Finally got the oil analysis back from the lab and here's what they had to say:
It's good to hear a lot less visible metal showed up in the oil this time. Microscopic iron is higher here, but like you noted, this oil run was a lot longer. Normal accumulation doesn't totally explain away all this steel wear though, since we saw in the 9/23/22 sample that this engine is capable of producing less wear. Ideally interstate miles would lead to less steel wear as well, since it's some of the gentlest use an engine can see. Though the engine is still running smoothly, quiet as ever, we suggest sticking to this interval or shorter to monitor trends.

Hindsight being 20/20, if the tick hadn't started so soon after sending the sample in, this might've been a warning. Not sure what I would've done differently though.

As far as actual numbers go, the only one outside of normal range was iron
9-25 oil analysis.JPG
 

Candy10

forum member
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Posts
673
Reaction score
62
Location
Middle-of-Nowhere, Texas
I’d go with #3. If you don’t plan on insane power, the 4.6 is just fine for a strong street build. Much easier to make power with the Coyote, but with the price of the swap, you’d be better off buying a used car

Added bonus, and this is purely personal opinion, the 4.6 sounds a lot better than the 5.0. They all sound the same to me, like a trumpet, no matter the exhaust setup LOL
 

cavero

forum member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Posts
665
Reaction score
93
Location
NoVA
I guess what's the definition of insane power? I was looking at 550 crank. The off the top of their head number they gave me for the rebuild (based on past customers) was more than the cost of an aluminator 5.0 Gen 3 (just the crate motor, no control packs/etc), although their number would be for a full forged build. And that wasn't including the cost of a supercharger. The money I might be looking at for either one probably puts me into that range of maybe I should be looking at used cars too. But prices of used cars are just ridiculous right now.

On the sound front, I like 'em both, but I'm with you on the 4.6 over the 5.0, really like the tone on the 3V. The guy in this video did a Coyote swap in his car and kept all the exhaust the same, so this was one of the most apples-to-apples comparisons I could find out there. Overall I liked the 3V better, but there were a couple times I had this on in the background and the Coyote sound got me. Particularly around 6:35

 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,195
Reaction score
1,080
A new aluminator + ceramic coated LT's + hi-flow catted H, would provide for plenty of hp/tq....+ a 91/93 tune. Then it's all new, under warranty, and no blower to mess with...and no IAT issues in hot wx.
 

cavero

forum member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Posts
665
Reaction score
93
Location
NoVA
IAT's... Didn't really know that was an issue. Started trying to read up on it and ran across a pretty good post from Department Of Boost:


Not really sure what the takeaway is from it other than they seem to point to a twin screw as the most thermally efficient and you get a better response from a bulb type sensor on a PD blower setup.

With the aluminator though, how much of a PITA is it going to be to make everything work with it? Everything from the speedometer, to the instrument cluster, and PATS? (some places I've been reading can actually just disable PATS but I'm wondering if that's more for older cars.) What about exhaust? Would I need something custom or would my 4.6 headers line up?
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,195
Reaction score
1,080
It's too bad that Ford / FRPP doesn't make a 5.0 L / 4 v replacement eng for the 05-10 cars..... that would drop right in, and be plug and play. It would be a small market I know. Build it like the aluminator, with Forged pistons / rods / crank / ARP bolts etc...and also include a Billet water pump + Billet oil pump and 11:1 or 12:1 CR. Then it could be used in either NA format....or boosted.

It would save folks a lot of grief.
 

Racer47

Doesn't have much to say
S197 Team Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Posts
1,060
Reaction score
316
Location
SE Wis
How much money, time, effort and frustration do you want to sink into a 120k mile car?
Are you really going to supercharge it? If its been 17 years already, I'd say that's not likely.
Plus that would be another $8k on top of $8k to rebuild the motor, at least.

I'd put in another set of cams, springs and rockers and drive it. That small amount of cam metal didn't ruin your crank and rod bearings.
 

JC SSP

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Posts
969
Reaction score
399
Location
FL
It all depends what you want to do with the car: track, race, autocross, street, etc...

You do You buddy, so going BIG might work for you, but take it from someone who has been around racing for over 40 years... there are thousands of stories of 900HP dyno runs and 9-sec E/T trailer queens which all cost $$$$$$ and usually don't run as hard as expected and/or are more prone to breakage due to running on the ragged-edge.

I concur with Racer47 and go with Option 1 (easiest and cheapest so you can drive it), stick some fresh cams and valvetrain, etc. and enjoy it. If you're not happy then go BIG and reuse some of the valvetrain components, headers, etc. Just my .02 cents
 

skwerl

tree hugger
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Posts
16,192
Reaction score
1,137
Location
central Florida
Speaking as somebody who sunk over $75K into my 3v 2009 Bullitt, I will say that starting off with a 17 year old, 120K mile car is not the platform on which to build a high performance car. My Bullitt made 643hp at the wheels and ran 138mph in the quarter mile. That said, you can get the same numbers with a new Coyote Mustang and a $10K blower kit. And you would have a car that holds more value since the 3v is an outdated platform.
 

GriffX

Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2017
Posts
456
Reaction score
134
TLDR, but wasn't wear of the passenger side cam a sign of oil starvation because of a blown chain tensioner gasket?
 

GlassTop09

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Posts
1,140
Reaction score
523
Location
Farmington, NM
That small amount of cam metal didn't ruin your crank and rod bearings.
I agree w\ this statement & this is why................

If you were to look at a diagram of this engine's oiling system layout you'd see that any metal that is shed in the upper valve train area enters the cyl head's oil drain back channels (outside of the pressurized oiling system where any metals will have direct access to the bearings, journals, etc) thus is going directly into the oil pan & eventually into the oil pan sump (where these metals can be captured in an oil sample taken from drained oil). For this metal to get to the pressurized side, it 1st has to get thru the oil pump pickup screen, then it has to get thru the oil pump itself, then it has to get thru the oil filter. The oil pump pickup screen mesh is specifically designed to screen out any particles large enough that can cause catastrophic damage to the oil pump rotors\case (very close tolerances) thus the oil pump rotors can spit this thru them so then the oil filter can filter any of this out BEFORE it can then enter the pressurized side of the oiling system.

Most all metals you see inside the oil pan sump came from metal wear caused outside of the pressurized side (upper valve train, front timing cover area) where lube oil waste is draining back into oil pan sump to be cooled\recirculated. Usually, any metals that can attack the crank\rod bearings, journals & camshaft journals would be initially shed within the pressurized side of the oiling system itself (downstream of the oil filter).........unless the oil filter's internal bypass valve is opened due to excessive deltaP across the filtering media inside of oil filter, usually caused by lack of timely oil changes or using a sub-par oil (oil breakdown causing sludge buildup plugging the filtering media)....or a very poorly designed\built oil filter design.....at which time any very fine metals suspended in the oil that got thru the oil pump (or shed within the oil pump itself) can be passed into the pressurized side & cause damage to the bottom end.

This is Ford's engineering at work by design as part of any well-designed system will incorporate worst case scenarios to provide as much protection as possible\feasible.........remember, these engines were intended to be used\maintained by the general public so warranty goals will dictate this. These engines are designed using very tight tolerances to maximize engine efficiency thus also have to be protected.....also need to be properly maintained as well.

Note: I know that most hanging around in this BBS\forum actually know all this already.........but you never know, so in my experience it's always helpful to give\answer the "why" or "how" to give credence to what Racer47 posted & also why I'm in agreement with it.

So, if your engine isn't exhibiting any indications of actual rod knock\piston slap or excessive crank end play from worn crank thrust bearings & the running oil pressure is good, then IMHO the bottom end is not hurt at all (how can it get hurt by metal shedding outside of the pressurized side of oiling system?) so what you've experienced is the time old Ford Mod Motor classic case of the OEM original poorly designed production era cam follower roller bearings starting to lock up due to lack of adequate oiling causing excess friction\drag on cam lobes causing metal to be sheared off the roller & cam lobe surfaces....causing the ticking sound from increased valve lash caused by increasing clearances that the lash adjusters can't make up anymore (original self-adjusting zero lash valve system design). If left unattended this further deteriorates & ends up causing more destructive damage......up to busted heads, dropped\bent valves or piston damage.

Just like stacking dominoes.........

Count yourself proud cavero that you were attentive enough (most aren't, sad to say) to catch this at the very early outset & most importantly.....took action.....thus you can feel good about going ahead w\ your #1 option & since replacing cams w\ phaser limiters already installed in both phasers, you might want to consider stepping up to Comp Cams 127500's since both the 127400's (your current installed cams) & the 127500's cost the same but you'd get some chop & increased dynamic compression curve (means more TQ output potential if setup\tuned properly in the VCT maps) while you're at it......unless you just love your 127400's then you'd need nothing else.

I also agree with stepping up to using 5W-30 full synthetic oil as well (IMHO, provides much better protection to all internal components vs the std 5W-20......especially when higher engine miles are observed due to increasing engine tolerances from natural wear over time......another engineering fact that sometimes goes over some folks understanding......even engine oil itself imparts some friction to metal surfaces when injected under pressure while floating the components to prevent direct metal-to-metal contact causing metal wear over time.......to the softer bearing surfaces by design......yes, the bearings are designed to be the wear part & not the crank\rods. So, remember this the next time when the old argument over which oil is better comes up & you're still using the Ford OM recommended 5W-20 synthetic blend oil in a high mileage Mod Motor.........IMHO you're playing Russian roulette w\ your engine w\o knowing it. You want to keep your engine's bearings protected for the long haul? Then start stepping up the oil viscosity to make up for the increased bearing clearances as they wear over time.......regardless of what the OM says to do.......its job is to help maintain the engine\powertrain warranty time\mileage period to cover Ford's profits & satisfy the Federal FTC rules that are established to protect the general public's interest & nothing further.

A lot of the info you see in the Ford OM is also by design incorporating some marketing strategies to entice folks to trade in\replace vehicles earlier than really necessary for Ford's business profit margin purposes only...........not necessarily the general public's well-being.

Ford has no incentive to tell anyone these things outright.........that even they know is true.
 

cavero

forum member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Posts
665
Reaction score
93
Location
NoVA
TLDR, but wasn't wear of the passenger side cam a sign of oil starvation because of a blown chain tensioner gasket?
Damn that's something I gotta look into. I saw something about replacing chain tensioners when I was trying to do some reading on a rebuild.
 

cavero

forum member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Posts
665
Reaction score
93
Location
NoVA
It's too bad that Ford / FRPP doesn't make a 5.0 L / 4 v replacement eng for the 05-10 cars..... that would drop right in, and be plug and play. It would be a small market I know. Build it like the aluminator, with Forged pistons / rods / crank / ARP bolts etc...and also include a Billet water pump + Billet oil pump and 11:1 or 12:1 CR. Then it could be used in either NA format....or boosted.

It would save folks a lot of grief.
They used to, but that was before the 5.0. Man, that was long time ago though. https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mmfp-0806-ford-racing-aluminator-crate-engine-install/
 

cavero

forum member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Posts
665
Reaction score
93
Location
NoVA
It all depends what you want to do with the car: track, race, autocross, street, etc...

You do You buddy, so going BIG might work for you, but take it from someone who has been around racing for over 40 years... there are thousands of stories of 900HP dyno runs and 9-sec E/T trailer queens which all cost $$$$$$ and usually don't run as hard as expected and/or are more prone to breakage due to running on the ragged-edge.

I concur with Racer47 and go with Option 1 (easiest and cheapest so you can drive it), stick some fresh cams and valvetrain, etc. and enjoy it. If you're not happy then go BIG and reuse some of the valvetrain components, headers, etc. Just my .02 cents

Yeah I guess I should say how big 'going big' was... I'm looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of 550 hp, mostly street, maybe autox or an occaisonal road coarse, but not for real competition or anything like that. The 350rhwp I have now can be fun, and while a lot of it's in the top end (engine really sings up there) it doesn't feel 'fast' by modern standards around town. I'd been going back and forth about just fixing it good enough for now and see how long it lasts, but that's $3k that assuming the worst could get me a year or 10 years (who knows :shrug:), and the way I was looking at it, if I'm eventually going to do a forged build, that $3k could go a not inconsequential sum towards it.


Speaking as somebody who sunk over $75K into my 3v 2009 Bullitt, I will say that starting off with a 17 year old, 120K mile car is not the platform on which to build a high performance car. My Bullitt made 643hp at the wheels and ran 138mph in the quarter mile. That said, you can get the same numbers with a new Coyote Mustang and a $10K blower kit. And you would have a car that holds more value since the 3v is an outdated platform.

Wow, what did that $75k go towards? On the Coyote levels, yeah technological advancement is great...obsolence sucks though. Thats one of the reasons I was looking at a possible Gen 3 5.0 swap -- heck I might even get better gas milage. On the age of the car -- yeah I get ya, it's definitely up there but the car's in really good shape. Aside from the engine, she's mechanically solid and I've upgraded a lot of parts over the years-- the paint, suspension, and rear end have between 20k and 60k on them, the transmission has 30k. Plus the car's easy to work on, I know what kind of shape everything is in, and it's been paid for since 2010. I could get something newer with a 5.0 for cheaper than some of the options I was looking at, but that's whole new car w/ a whole new set of unknowns. I haven't completely shut the door on getting rid of this car for a newer one, but w/ used prices being what they are, it'd be a tough sell.
 

cavero

forum member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Posts
665
Reaction score
93
Location
NoVA
How much money, time, effort and frustration do you want to sink into a 120k mile car?
Are you really going to supercharge it? If its been 17 years already, I'd say that's not likely.
Plus that would be another $8k on top of $8k to rebuild the motor, at least.

I'd put in another set of cams, springs and rockers and drive it. That small amount of cam metal didn't ruin your crank and rod bearings.
I'd say about $25k would be what I could justify. Been prepping myself for something up towards that number based on what my shop had told me they'd done for similar forged builds ($15k). Supercharging -- I always wanted to since I got the car, but couldn't really afford it. Had school loans, bought a house, then had kids, there was always some reason I didn't think it'd be a good idea to spend the money. So I'd upgrade what I could with what I could justify. Last major engine upgrade was the cams/intake/headers back in 2016 and I was pretty happy with that for a while. Magnum XL in 2018. But now I'm in a good spot where I could justify s/c money and before the metal, I felt like it was getting to be about time for an upgrade.

I hope you're right about the bearings, the oil analysis definitely supports it.

I agree w\ this statement & this is why................

If you were to look at a diagram of this engine's oiling system layout you'd see that any metal that is shed in the upper valve train area enters the cyl head's oil drain back channels (outside of the pressurized oiling system where any metals will have direct access to the bearings, journals, etc) thus is going directly into the oil pan & eventually into the oil pan sump (where these metals can be captured in an oil sample taken from drained oil). For this metal to get to the pressurized side, it 1st has to get thru the oil pump pickup screen, then it has to get thru the oil pump itself, then it has to get thru the oil filter. The oil pump pickup screen mesh is specifically designed to screen out any particles large enough that can cause catastrophic damage to the oil pump rotors\case (very close tolerances) thus the oil pump rotors can spit this thru them so then the oil filter can filter any of this out BEFORE it can then enter the pressurized side of the oiling system.

Most all metals you see inside the oil pan sump came from metal wear caused outside of the pressurized side (upper valve train, front timing cover area) where lube oil waste is draining back into oil pan sump to be cooled\recirculated. Usually, any metals that can attack the crank\rod bearings, journals & camshaft journals would be initially shed within the pressurized side of the oiling system itself (downstream of the oil filter).........unless the oil filter's internal bypass valve is opened due to excessive deltaP across the filtering media inside of oil filter, usually caused by lack of timely oil changes or using a sub-par oil (oil breakdown causing sludge buildup plugging the filtering media)....or a very poorly designed\built oil filter design.....at which time any very fine metals suspended in the oil that got thru the oil pump (or shed within the oil pump itself) can be passed into the pressurized side & cause damage to the bottom end.

This is Ford's engineering at work by design as part of any well-designed system will incorporate worst case scenarios to provide as much protection as possible\feasible.........remember, these engines were intended to be used\maintained by the general public so warranty goals will dictate this. These engines are designed using very tight tolerances to maximize engine efficiency thus also have to be protected.....also need to be properly maintained as well.

Note: I know that most hanging around in this BBS\forum actually know all this already.........but you never know, so in my experience it's always helpful to give\answer the "why" or "how" to give credence to what Racer47 posted & also why I'm in agreement with it.

So, if your engine isn't exhibiting any indications of actual rod knock\piston slap or excessive crank end play from worn crank thrust bearings & the running oil pressure is good, then IMHO the bottom end is not hurt at all (how can it get hurt by metal shedding outside of the pressurized side of oiling system?) so what you've experienced is the time old Ford Mod Motor classic case of the OEM original poorly designed production era cam follower roller bearings starting to lock up due to lack of adequate oiling causing excess friction\drag on cam lobes causing metal to be sheared off the roller & cam lobe surfaces....causing the ticking sound from increased valve lash caused by increasing clearances that the lash adjusters can't make up anymore (original self-adjusting zero lash valve system design). If left unattended this further deteriorates & ends up causing more destructive damage......up to busted heads, dropped\bent valves or piston damage.

Just like stacking dominoes.........

Count yourself proud cavero that you were attentive enough (most aren't, sad to say) to catch this at the very early outset & most importantly.....took action.....thus you can feel good about going ahead w\ your #1 option & since replacing cams w\ phaser limiters already installed in both phasers, you might want to consider stepping up to Comp Cams 127500's since both the 127400's (your current installed cams) & the 127500's cost the same but you'd get some chop & increased dynamic compression curve (means more TQ output potential if setup\tuned properly in the VCT maps) while you're at it......unless you just love your 127400's then you'd need nothing else.

I also agree with stepping up to using 5W-30 full synthetic oil as well (IMHO, provides much better protection to all internal components vs the std 5W-20......especially when higher engine miles are observed due to increasing engine tolerances from natural wear over time......another engineering fact that sometimes goes over some folks understanding......even engine oil itself imparts some friction to metal surfaces when injected under pressure while floating the components to prevent direct metal-to-metal contact causing metal wear over time.......to the softer bearing surfaces by design......yes, the bearings are designed to be the wear part & not the crank\rods. So, remember this the next time when the old argument over which oil is better comes up & you're still using the Ford OM recommended 5W-20 synthetic blend oil in a high mileage Mod Motor.........IMHO you're playing Russian roulette w\ your engine w\o knowing it. You want to keep your engine's bearings protected for the long haul? Then start stepping up the oil viscosity to make up for the increased bearing clearances as they wear over time.......regardless of what the OM says to do.......its job is to help maintain the engine\powertrain warranty time\mileage period to cover Ford's profits & satisfy the Federal FTC rules that are established to protect the general public's interest & nothing further.

A lot of the info you see in the Ford OM is also by design incorporating some marketing strategies to entice folks to trade in\replace vehicles earlier than really necessary for Ford's business profit margin purposes only...........not necessarily the general public's well-being.

Ford has no incentive to tell anyone these things outright.........that even they know is true.
Wow, great writeup. As far as the craptastic OEM followers, what're the alternatives out there?

The 127500's, it looks like they're pretty close to the 127400's w/ longer duration? I remember reading (I'm no expert) that longer duration would mean less low end power/torque but higher top end gains.

Definitely going to be sticking w/ 10W-30 now. Know what you mean on the fuel economy thing -- I remember they stopped including spare tires in the '08 mustangs to save weight and get that little bit more MPG (and a can of fix a flat saved them $$$ too). My brother was suggesting maybe adding lucas oil to it to help keep a film on the cams, but I'm pretty wary of additives like that.
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,195
Reaction score
1,080
Speaking as somebody who sunk over $75K into my 3v 2009 Bullitt, I will say that starting off with a 17 year old, 120K mile car is not the platform on which to build a high performance car. My Bullitt made 643hp at the wheels and ran 138mph in the quarter mile. That said, you can get the same numbers with a new Coyote Mustang and a $10K blower kit. And you would have a car that holds more value since the 3v is an outdated platform.
What was the 1/4 mile ET ? What was the 60' time ?
 

cavero

forum member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Posts
665
Reaction score
93
Location
NoVA
BTW, here's my high dollar protection system for right now. I was looking into magnetic oil filter wraps online and a lot of them are just magnets in a sleeve. I figure I'll save the sleeve and stick some neodymium magnets on there. Also have a magnetic drain plug I installed on Sunday when I changed to 10W-30



PXL_20231015_202708553.jpg
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,195
Reaction score
1,080
I agree w\ this statement & this is why................

If you were to look at a diagram of this engine's oiling system layout you'd see that any metal that is shed in the upper valve train area enters the cyl head's oil drain back channels (outside of the pressurized oiling system where any metals will have direct access to the bearings, journals, etc) thus is going directly into the oil pan & eventually into the oil pan sump (where these metals can be captured in an oil sample taken from drained oil). For this metal to get to the pressurized side, it 1st has to get thru the oil pump pickup screen, then it has to get thru the oil pump itself, then it has to get thru the oil filter. The oil pump pickup screen mesh is specifically designed to screen out any particles large enough that can cause catastrophic damage to the oil pump rotors\case (very close tolerances) thus the oil pump rotors can spit this thru them so then the oil filter can filter any of this out BEFORE it can then enter the pressurized side of the oiling system.

Most all metals you see inside the oil pan sump came from metal wear caused outside of the pressurized side (upper valve train, front timing cover area) where lube oil waste is draining back into oil pan sump to be cooled\recirculated. Usually, any metals that can attack the crank\rod bearings, journals & camshaft journals would be initially shed within the pressurized side of the oiling system itself (downstream of the oil filter).........unless the oil filter's internal bypass valve is opened due to excessive deltaP across the filtering media inside of oil filter, usually caused by lack of timely oil changes or using a sub-par oil (oil breakdown causing sludge buildup plugging the filtering media)....or a very poorly designed\built oil filter design.....at which time any very fine metals suspended in the oil that got thru the oil pump (or shed within the oil pump itself) can be passed into the pressurized side & cause damage to the bottom end.

This is Ford's engineering at work by design as part of any well-designed system will incorporate worst case scenarios to provide as much protection as possible\feasible.........remember, these engines were intended to be used\maintained by the general public so warranty goals will dictate this. These engines are designed using very tight tolerances to maximize engine efficiency thus also have to be protected.....also need to be properly maintained as well.

Note: I know that most hanging around in this BBS\forum actually know all this already.........but you never know, so in my experience it's always helpful to give\answer the "why" or "how" to give credence to what Racer47 posted & also why I'm in agreement with it.

So, if your engine isn't exhibiting any indications of actual rod knock\piston slap or excessive crank end play from worn crank thrust bearings & the running oil pressure is good, then IMHO the bottom end is not hurt at all (how can it get hurt by metal shedding outside of the pressurized side of oiling system?) so what you've experienced is the time old Ford Mod Motor classic case of the OEM original poorly designed production era cam follower roller bearings starting to lock up due to lack of adequate oiling causing excess friction\drag on cam lobes causing metal to be sheared off the roller & cam lobe surfaces....causing the ticking sound from increased valve lash caused by increasing clearances that the lash adjusters can't make up anymore (original self-adjusting zero lash valve system design). If left unattended this further deteriorates & ends up causing more destructive damage......up to busted heads, dropped\bent valves or piston damage.

Just like stacking dominoes.........

Count yourself proud cavero that you were attentive enough (most aren't, sad to say) to catch this at the very early outset & most importantly.....took action.....thus you can feel good about going ahead w\ your #1 option & since replacing cams w\ phaser limiters already installed in both phasers, you might want to consider stepping up to Comp Cams 127500's since both the 127400's (your current installed cams) & the 127500's cost the same but you'd get some chop & increased dynamic compression curve (means more TQ output potential if setup\tuned properly in the VCT maps) while you're at it......unless you just love your 127400's then you'd need nothing else.

I also agree with stepping up to using 5W-30 full synthetic oil as well (IMHO, provides much better protection to all internal components vs the std 5W-20......especially when higher engine miles are observed due to increasing engine tolerances from natural wear over time......another engineering fact that sometimes goes over some folks understanding......even engine oil itself imparts some friction to metal surfaces when injected under pressure while floating the components to prevent direct metal-to-metal contact causing metal wear over time.......to the softer bearing surfaces by design......yes, the bearings are designed to be the wear part & not the crank\rods. So, remember this the next time when the old argument over which oil is better comes up & you're still using the Ford OM recommended 5W-20 synthetic blend oil in a high mileage Mod Motor.........IMHO you're playing Russian roulette w\ your engine w\o knowing it. You want to keep your engine's bearings protected for the long haul? Then start stepping up the oil viscosity to make up for the increased bearing clearances as they wear over time.......regardless of what the OM says to do.......its job is to help maintain the engine\powertrain warranty time\mileage period to cover Ford's profits & satisfy the Federal FTC rules that are established to protect the general public's interest & nothing further.

A lot of the info you see in the Ford OM is also by design incorporating some marketing strategies to entice folks to trade in\replace vehicles earlier than really necessary for Ford's business profit margin purposes only...........not necessarily the general public's well-being.

Ford has no incentive to tell anyone these things outright.........that even they know is true.
Oem Ford.... 'semi synthetic'..... eng oil is fubar. It's typ 3% synthetic...and 97% dino oil. A full 100% synthetic oil, and in 0W-30 or 5W-30 is optimum. When I used to use Ford semi synthetic 5W-20 eng oil, my catch can would be full to the top in a few months. It resembled a 'chocolate shake'. Apparently it's a mixture of gasoline, eng oil, and condensation. Once I switched to 100% synthetic RP-HPS in 5W-30, no more choc shake. The catch can barely had any oil in it..... and it was clean. Since switched to Mobil-1....in 100% synthetic in either 0W-20, or 5W-20, or 5W-30, or 0W-30, same deal, no more choc shake.

IMO, both dino oil and also ..'semi synthetic' are just junk, and to be avoided.
 

Support us!

Support Us - Become A Supporting Member Today!

Click Here For Details

Sponsor Links

Banner image
Back
Top