Newbie to this Forum, Mustangs, HPDE, etc with questions, looking for advice

[DUFUS]

So glad I came upon these forums (after becoming frustrating viewing others which will remain nameless..), looks like great stuff!
So, as the title suggests, I'm a neophyte. I might as well say I'm new to any car that isn't used for boring commuting/DD.
I suppose I had mid-life crisis money burning a hole in my pocket and decided to buy a 2011 GT/CS last year. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and after reading about the 5.0 Coyote, I was sold. Then, to my amazement, I find out that you can take cars on road tracks, and that I have a few decent ones in my area. Well, golly, I gotta do that! And so I did, twice last year at Blackhawk Farms. This was done with the car totally stock (that's std/non-Brembo brakes, and all-season tires). I survived to tell the tale, probably mostly because I'm not SO stupid that I was going to really test the limits of this thing. Dirty Harry says: A man's got to know his limitations.
So this year I decide I've got to do that more often, and at different venues, and become better/stronger/faster (another 70's reference, maybe you get an idea of my age now). I made the following nominal common sense mods:
· 2010 GT500 18 * 9.5 wheels with 275/40 Sumitomo HTRZIII's all around.
· EBC Bluestuff brake pads
· Motul RBF600 fluid
· Eibach Pro-Kit springs
and have since gone to a track day/weekend at Road America (two weeks ago). Again, didn't REALLY push it, wasn't full throttle or full brake all the time, did some coasting, no late brake diving mania. Having said that, I was still getting to 130+ mph in straights on occasion. But everything held up well and I had a hell of a lot of fun. I just want to be assured I’m not fooling myself, and to have peace of mind that when I do that again the eqpt I have is up to the task; that I wasn’t just lucky in cheating death that one time.
My question(s) would be: Where do I go from here? Keep in mind I don’t expect to get totally carried away with spending money, or creating a car that can’t be lived with on the street. Nor do I believe I’m the second coming of Mario Andretti (OK… I know, he’s not dead). Any strong opinions against what I’ve done to this point, and maybe I should try something different? i.e.: summer tires are good, but THOSE tires suck; those pads suck, those springs suck, etc.
I’m leaning towards brake ducting and stainless lines at a minimum if I keep the std calipers/rotors. But is a BBK recommended, or overkill at this point? I figure struts/shocks should be replaced also. Recommendations there? Are coil-overs overkill?
Next track is Autobahn South in a week.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Drop me a PM... You're in my region.

 

[Philostang]

Whoo-hoo! Looks like we've got another Chicago-area Mustang in the mix! Man did you come to the right place. Welcome!

Let me be the first to set off the chorus: seat time, seat time, seat time!

A. It's the most valuable asset to have to make you go faster.
B. You're car is not a ticking time-bomb. You're fine with what you've got.

Those add up to a strong focus on building the driver. If you're running this coming weekend with NWSC, request an instructor. Then find organizations that will guarantee (or better, require) that you get an instructor for the day/weekend. I highly recommend NASA (you get one-on-one instruction for the entire weekend). Seat time is great, but "quality seat time" is far better. You're going to get a lot more out of your time on track if you've got someone who can evaluate what you're doing and push you a bit further.

Also, there are a few of us here who would be happy to give you a ride in our cars (that are a bit on the "heavily built" side for track duty). We should meet up.

An aside: If you're really-really curious about what to do next with your car, you might want to look into those brake pads. I'm not familiar enough with EBC stuff to say for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if you will soon be in for a pad upgrade. These cars are heavy and they're brutal on pads, so you will quickly find yourself well-served by a dedicated track pad that can take huge amounts of heat and ask for more. Lots of us are fans of Hawk Blue as an introductory track pad, or you might look at Carbotech XP10 pads as well. I've used both and recommend either.

Best,
-j

 

[DUFUS]

Philostang, thanks for the welcome. Next weekend is with NWSC, and I've requested an instructor there and have had for my previous track days as well. And will for the foreseeable future. They were invaluable, especially at RA. Actually, the first time at Blackhawk I had the instructor drive my car for the first session. I think he was more nervous than me, because I had told him I only had the car for a little over a week.
I think the contrarian in me decided to go with the EBC Blue pads, because everyone else swears by two or three other companies products to the exclusion of all others. EBC's claim is that they are designed for performance street/track use for heavier cars. So I do take that "everything for everybody" aspect with a grain of salt. But what steered me away from Hawk was my perception (albeit, from faceless web reviews/forums) that they can really eat up rotors. These held up well to RA, at least how i drove RA for one weekend. And I'll certainly monitor wear/performance going forward. But I do have a spare set of rotors and figured whenever I install those I'd go with another company's (probably Hawk) pads.
You wouldn't have to ask me twice to come along for a ride in a horse for a course. I've already signed up for future track days at Road America, Blackhawk, and Autobahn CC.

 

[pcdrj]

Another choir member here confirm the message. Focus on driving and not modifying the car. In most cases mods will increase your consumable costs and reduce the car's reliability. You actually improve more when the car's flaws are exposed because you can detect and manage them. For instance, if you run extremely sticky tires you'll be faster right away due to the better grip, but you likely won't improve further because its difficult to drive them at the limit.

Progress until you drive at or near the car's limits before changing things. Does you ABS kick in? If so, you don't need a BBK. Even when you start seeing ABS kick it try and modulate braking to improve stopping. Consider where you're turning in and how it might be causing you to use too much brake.

There are some good posts in this section about braking, setups, etc. Search is your friend.

 

[DUFUS]

pcdrj, points well taken, thanks. I have been searching this forum also, great info. Perhaps I prematurely e-Postulated.
A very productive day for me, my employer may have another opinion. But I didn't want to risk working on Friday the 13th anyway.

 

[Sleeper_08]

Welcome to the group - you've obviously been bitten like the rest of us.

From what I've read and experienced the Hawk pads are harder on rotors than the Carbotech pads. The downside to the Carbotech pads are that they advise you should not run their pads on rotors that have been used by other pads. This means that you can use their Bobcat pads for street use and the appropriate pad for track use.

What I do is run the track pads from spring to fall and then have a spare set of rotors for the winter and use the GT500 pads that came with my Brembo kit on them. This of course means I have to live with the squeal of the track pads on the street.

 

[pcdrj]

... The downside to the Carbotech pads are that they advise you should not run their pads on rotors that have been used by other pads...t.

This is true for any performance pad.

 

[Sharad]

Interesting thread! I'm headed to Sebring in two weeks in my 06 GT, and I'm probably at about the same level of inexperience as DUFUS. It's all good though. I'm not looking to be a hero. Just want to have fun on the track.

 

[Ruger51]

Today was my first track day. It was fun, and I was glad I had decided not to do any mods before seat time. I ran hard, harder than most in the newbie group and still don't fell like I got to the limits of my 11 gt w/brembo pkg unless I did something stupid. I am glad to see the pad discussion and may be in for a set of braided lines as well.

 

[Sleeper_08]

Today was my first track day. It was fun, and I was glad I had decided not to do any mods before seat time. I ran hard, harder than most in the newbie group and still don't fell like I got to the limits of my 11 gt w/Brembo pkg unless I did something stupid. I am glad to see the pad discussion and may be in for a set of braided lines as well.

Welcome to the group.

Before you go to Stainless Steel lines you might want to consider upgrading to DOT4 fluid if you have not already done so. Do a search on Motul in this forum and you should find several threads discussing it and ATE fluid. To be safe the DOT4 fluid should be completely flushed and replaced at least once a year.

Keep a careful watch on your stock pads for wear, including the rears.

 

[pcdrj]

Also, make sure you turn traction control off or you may see premature wear on rear brakes...and do not use the parking brake when coming of a hot lap session.

 

[Grip]

Another choir member here confirm the message. Focus on driving and not modifying the car. In most cases mods will increase your consumable costs and reduce the car's reliability. You actually improve more when the car's flaws are exposed because you can detect and manage them. For instance, if you run extremely sticky tires you'll be faster right away due to the better grip, but you likely won't improve further because its difficult to drive them at the limit.

A paragraph often seen, but so very true. The statement in bold is the most important one to consider as you progress financially with the car, along with constantly re-questioning yourself "Does the car really need to be this much better at doing whatever this part promises?"

Does you ABS kick in? If not, you don't need a BBK.

I think you're backwards on this, brother. Respectfully, of course. ABS kicking in would mean the brake torque is overpowering the tractive capacity of the tires. The general rule is, if you can lock your brakes and/or engage ABS, you don't need bigger brakes. Think sequentially in that the tires are the first element in the braking equation.

Where I would give caution is against any mod that comes with "Requirements." For example, the aforementioned Big Brake Kit (BBK), will require a minimum of wheel size/dimension for clearance. Meaning larger wheels, meaning larger tires, meaning an increase in operating cost.

Oh and on your tire choice, the HTR-Z range is an excellent way to go. You can put a tremendous beating on a set of Sumitomos and they will take it with a smile.

 

[pcdrj]

I think you're backwards on this, brother.

Laughing at myself. Yes that's definitely backwards.

 

[argonaut]

Good advice all and I'll echo it while adding a few more things:
- seat time is the numero uno mod by far, no comparison
- the Sumi's are an excellent choice for starting out. Stay on street tires until you can confidently slide and the catch the car in most any corner. Moving to R-comps too soon will stunt development
- I'd recommend high quality SS lines. Cheap mod for piece of mind. Just last week at WGI a late model M3 went into the wall at turn 1 when the line crimp on one of the fronts let go and the line separated from banjo fitting
- Look into a CG lock to better hold you in the seat. I've heard some guys sit on a piece of the rubber matting you line a tool box with. Anything to lesson your sliding around in the seat
- I've never used EBC pads but watching the various forums over the last few years I'd say they got a bad reputation with the yellow and red stuff - which weren't up to the abuse of a heavy car on a race track. However the word on the newer bluestuff seems to be they are ok.
- The stock brakes will work fine for at least a couple years. Believe me, you will know when its time to upgrade. And in case you didn't know - upgrading to a bbk has nothing to do with stopping distances or stopping power...it has everything to do with longevity, consistency, heat management, consumable cost, etc.
- Brake ducts are probably a good idea in the near term
- If you do mod the car anymore in the immediate future my first change would be shocks. I don't know how good they are on your 11 but on the 05-09 Stangs the oem shocks weren't very good and an upgrade makes a big difference.