Powerhouse turbo car issues....help needed

[retfr8flyr]

I think you may have those backwards man, as the BOV needs to be able to see vac so its source should be post TB

You're correct, brain fart. The BOV needs to be post TB and the W/G needs to be pre TB.


Earl

 

[jodadejss06gt]

Let me start by telling you how my PH setup is run and then you can either confirm or deny. I have the PH intercooler with the BOV mounted on the top center per PH construction(no bypass valve). The BOV routes directly to post throttle body source, mine is run to the bottom plug of the manifold where the driver side valve cover used to hook up. The wastegate signal is actually coming from a pressure source on the top of the IC. This can be done many different ways, it just depends on how you prefer to set it up.

If the car has been running poorly it could foul a plug quickly. Quite possibly a coil pack is bad, but I'd really want to see you get a data log from someone or take it by Mike and let him check it out again.

 

[redstangs9308gt]

Ok, just my two cents here and I hope it helps. I have alot of experience with turbo cars/ big trucks. I know for a FACT that when you have a leak in the system, no matter how big or how little it effects how quickly you will build boost. From what I understand, you say that its slow to build boost but once you are finally building your 14psi of boost(should be 16 psi) it runs good but slow to get built up right? Ok, I would pull your front bumper cover off ASAP and start looking for cracks in welds, possible a rock might have hit your intercooler and busted it? If you had a exhaust temp sensor you could see if it was getting hotter than usual, as that will be a sign of a leak. Antoher thing to note that usually when I have a leak on my systems, you can actually hear the leak most of the time it will either make a blowing or sucking sound. Just a thought also, I have seen intake gaskets start leaking too. Have you thought of that? How old are they? How many miles on them? I believe it something simple, just going to take a little time and effort. Good luck and hope I gave you some ideas if you didn't already know about them.

 

[redstangs9308gt]

Something else. I personally wouldn't do this to my car but I have and will do to my big trucks is when I suspect a leak and can't find it, I will take starting fluid and spray around all areas of the turbo system, from intake to high pressure side and usually if its on the intake side of the turbo it will suck in the starting fluid and rev the engine up. Intake side leaks are much harder to find than the high pressure side as they are quieter in nature. High pressure leaks usually make a distinct whistling sound.​

 

[michael.konor]

Very good point redstangs, smoking a system helps quite a bit, but when you've got a leak that may only show up under boost, that adds quite a few more problems in finding the leak.

Hell, you may even have a crack in your intake that only expands under boost. With the noise the engine and turbo makes on boost, it'll be hard to find unless you get luck or disassemble your system and inspect it piece by piece.

 

[redstangs9308gt]

How much pressure did they put on your system when they smoked it? Got cats? If so have you checked them?

 

[one eyed willy]

I use a 4" PVC cap with a valve stem in the end, I clamp it down where my air filter is at before the turbo. Then I have a oval piece of wood I cut that fits my throttle body coupler. I pressurize my system to 30psi, it holds the pressure for a decent amount of time. I find every little leak when I do this using a squirt bottle with water and dish soap!

For the exhaust I use my DIY smoke machine, it works good but no pressure so it's good for finding bigger leaks only.it did help me find a cracked manifold that I could hear leaking but could not see the crack.

I would be looking at that waste gate if it were me....disconnect the pipe feeding it back to the exhaust and listen to when it opens, also try disconnecting the vac lines to see if it spools faster with them disconnected.

What brand waste gate is it?

 

[bradleyem]

Got cats? If so have you checked them?

That was what I was thinking as well, but usually the first thing to go on a boosted car is the cats...definitely not good to have on there. Clogged cats would certainly cause the problem that he's having though.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[one eyed willy]

Second sentence, first post, no cats.

 

[bradleyem]

Second sentence, first post, no cats.

D'oh....

I blame the L-tryptophan....

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[redstangs9308gt]

Second sentence, first post, no cats.

All the turkey is clogging my thought process. Seriously don't know how I missed that.

 

[TexasKyle]

Ok, just my two cents here and I hope it helps. I have alot of experience with turbo cars/ big trucks. I know for a FACT that when you have a leak in the system, no matter how big or how little it effects how quickly you will build boost. From what I understand, you say that its slow to build boost but once you are finally building your 14psi of boost(should be 16 psi) it runs good but slow to get built up right? Ok, I would pull your front bumper cover off ASAP and start looking for cracks in welds, possible a rock might have hit your intercooler and busted it? If you had a exhaust temp sensor you could see if it was getting hotter than usual, as that will be a sign of a leak. Antoher thing to note that usually when I have a leak on my systems, you can actually hear the leak most of the time it will either make a blowing or sucking sound. Just a thought also, I have seen intake gaskets start leaking too. Have you thought of that? How old are they? How many miles on them? I believe it something simple, just going to take a little time and effort. Good luck and hope I gave you some ideas if you didn't already know about them.

This weekend I plan to take the front bumper off so I can go over the entire cold side again. Help me out here on the vacuum lines for the wastegate and bov....even if I had a bad vacuum line, that wouldn't stop or slow boost building right? It would potentially stop the wastegate and/or bov to open at the right pressure. Correct? I would actually have to have a bad seat or something in the wastegate or bov in order to inhibit boost from building???

Very good point redstangs, smoking a system helps quite a bit, but when you've got a leak that may only show up under boost, that adds quite a few more problems in finding the leak.

Hell, you may even have a crack in your intake that only expands under boost. With the noise the engine and turbo makes on boost, it'll be hard to find unless you get luck or disassemble your system and inspect it piece by piece.

I had an extra intake from my 07 from when I put the Saleen on it. I already swapped it out thinking along these same lines.

I use a 4" PVC cap with a valve stem in the end, I clamp it down where my air filter is at before the turbo. Then I have a oval piece of wood I cut that fits my throttle body coupler. I pressurize my system to 30psi, it holds the pressure for a decent amount of time. I find every little leak when I do this using a squirt bottle with water and dish soap!

For the exhaust I use my DIY smoke machine, it works good but no pressure so it's good for finding bigger leaks only.it did help me find a cracked manifold that I could hear leaking but could not see the crack.

I would be looking at that waste gate if it were me....disconnect the pipe feeding it back to the exhaust and listen to when it opens, also try disconnecting the vac lines to see if it spools faster with them disconnected.

What brand waste gate is it?

Your thread on this is how I came up with what I did. I made PVC pipes/caps for the intake and the exhaust side. I didn't build the smoke machine part though. I did find that I had an exhaust leak on the passenger side collector area with this method. I also found a bad cap for one of the ports on the intake this way. Both have been repaired. Also, Bumbera's did do a smoke test on the exhaust and the intake side while I had it in their shop to repair the exhaust. No leaks, according to them anyway.

It's been a while since I had it all apart, but I want to say it is a Tial.

 

[jodadejss06gt]

If there were a leak in the lines that go to either the BOV or the wastegate I would think it would cause slower build as it would be a leak of pressure. The line off the top of the intercooler that goes to the wastegate is pressure so a leak would be bad. Then the line that goes to the BOV is pressure also so that would cause issues also.

 

[TexasKyle]

If there were a leak in the lines that go to either the BOV or the wastegate I would think it would cause slower build as it would be a leak of pressure. The line off the top of the intercooler that goes to the wastegate is pressure so a leak would be bad. Then the line that goes to the BOV is pressure also so that would cause issues also.

Yes, but both of those sources, one pressure, one vacuum, limit the amount of boost that is built, not when boost starts building? Neither, unless they are defective, should inhibit boost building at all, regardless of whether the hoses are even hooked up to them or not. Correct?

I am wondering if I have a seal gone in the turbo to be honest. When I pressure tested the cold side looking for leaks, I had air escaping out of the turbo on/around the seal area that faces the center section. I contacted a respected person about that and was told that 1) I didnt even know how much pressure I was putting on it because I wasn't using a regulator, and 2) it's a normal thing to have happen.

The less I find wrong elsewhere, the more I suspect the turbo though.

 

[jodadejss06gt]

I'm not an expert by any means but a leak is a leak. If you fill up an air compressor and it has a leak it will take a longer time to overcome the leak and fill up the tank. A leaky coldside(busted vacume hose) will still be a leak and less efficient system. I'd say at a certain point of turbo spool the amount of air your turbo puts out would eventually overcome a small leak because your turbo is going to keep cranking air till your signal to your wastegate says hey lets think about opening. If you pull the line from your wastegate all together it won't open and that will be bad news. Just my thinking on the situation. You could easily pull your BOV vacuum line and pressure test that or just replace.

 

[redstangs9308gt]

I'm not an expert by any means but a leak is a leak. If you fill up an air compressor and it has a leak it will take a longer time to overcome the leak and fill up the tank. A leaky coldside(busted vacume hose) will still be a leak and less efficient system. I'd say at a certain point of turbo spool the amount of air your turbo puts out would eventually overcome a small leak because your turbo is going to keep cranking air till your signal to your wastegate says hey lets think about opening. If you pull the line from your wastegate all together it won't open and that will be bad news. Just my thinking on the situation. You could easily pull your BOV vacuum line and pressure test that or just replace.

YUP ^^^^ It must be a sealed system to build boost and sustain boost. The only thing that must come into play is of course your waste gate so you won't put too much boost on your engine. A leak of any kind will do the following
1. exhaust gas will be much hotter
2. intake temps will rise
3. Take a higher rpm to build the same boost you was building at a much lower rpm before
4. You may even notice you will hit a peak of 14psi and then it will slowly go down to a lower number even though conditions remain the same. Same load same throttle position.
5. Over all boost loss. Use to build 16 now only getting 14psi etc etc.
6. You will notice a richer condition unless you have been tuned since you have been broke down then I am guessing the tuner has since compensated for the lack of air flow.

 

[redstangs9308gt]

Question. Have you contacted Mike@powerhouse? I know Mike would be more than happy to help do educated quesses as long as he has the time. Don't waste your time PMing him on here as he don't get on here much anymore. Last time I was in his shop (Jul 2011) he was working on a blow through carb turbo system for a big block chevy.

 

[TexasKyle]

I have contacted Mike about this issue before. He has referred me to TSS as he is affiliated with them on the tuning side of things. As you can see, it's rather hard to explain how the car drives, and difficult to diagnose over the phone or in print. I fault him none for wanting me to take it to a shop he trusts and works with to troubleshoot it in person.

That being said, it's almost impossible for me to get the car there unless I ship it. Between my work schedule and two kids in two different schools, the only time I get out of the city limits is to go on vacation or for work.

This is the end of my self mechanicing pride though. I am going to take the front bumper off, replace all the vacuum lines, go over the intake again and call it a day. If it's not this, I will just ship it to Orange and let TSS do whatever it takes to get it right.

Thanks to everyone that has chimed in and offered advice.

 

[Turbostangs90]

Ever get a handle on the situation?

 

[TexasKyle]

Ever get a handle on the situation?

No. I've had no time. Bought a new house, moved, fixing up the old one to sell, holidays etc. Now I am out of the country for a few weeks. Have to dive back into it when I get back.