S550 Mustang Suspension and Powertrain Discussion

[Department Of Boost]

Jamal From ford said Transmission is a heavily modified, to handle the requirements of the new 5.2 power plant, TR3160.

I sure hope not! Here is a link to a PDF from Tremec:

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/File/TREMEC_TR-3160.Transmission.pdf

Sounds like another MT-82 type trans, which I hate. Dumb gearing.

If this is the case chalk up another reason why I'm not interested in the GT350. Which sucks, I really wanted to want one.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I know, I know.... no one in this section will run 4.5" wide fronts....

Hey, we need something to cut the pizza with


Norm

 

[BMR Tech]

lol

 

[claudermilk]

If that's it, then something doesn't add up. The PDF gmitch linked shows it's rated to 310 ft-lbs, yet the GT350 is claimed to be over 400. Heck, even my now "old" '13 GT is rated at 390 ft-lbs. I guess "heavily modified" would be an understatement then.

 

[NDSP]

I sure hope not! Here is a link to a PDF from Tremec:

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/File/TREMEC_TR-3160.Transmission.pdf

Sounds like another MT-82 type trans, which I hate. Dumb gearing.

If this is the case chalk up another reason why I'm not interested in the GT350. Which sucks, I really wanted to want one.

The question and response:

Q: Tell us a little about the transmission.
A: It’s a Tremec 3160 transmission that’s been modified fairly significantly to cope with the demands of the flat plane crank engine.

Q: What about the fly wheel and the clutch?
A: It’s got a low inertial dual mass flywheel and two 15-mm dual disc clutch.

 

[Department Of Boost]

The question and response:

Q: Tell us a little about the transmission.
A: It’s a Tremec 3160 transmission that’s been modified fairly significantly to cope with the demands of the flat plane crank engine.

Q: What about the fly wheel and the clutch?
A: It’s got a low inertial dual mass flywheel and two 15-mm dual disc clutch.

Even if it has the torque capacity the gear ratios will be junk just like the MT-82. That is THE WORST open track trans that has ever been in a Mustang.

 

[ArizonaGT]

Even if it has the torque capacity the gear ratios will be junk just like the MT-82. That is THE WORST open track trans that has ever been in a Mustang.

It's worked just fine for me...

 

[Norm Peterson]

Even if it has the torque capacity the gear ratios will be junk just like the MT-82. That is THE WORST open track trans that has ever been in a Mustang.

Are you sure it isn't the axle ratios making the tranny ratios seem bad?

2 - 5 are pretty close to the close-ratio toploader and M22 Muncie ratios, plus a granny gear 1st and an overdrive that's so far away that you don't want to have to use it on the track anyway. Seems like there should be a good axle ratio to work with that.


Norm

 

[Department Of Boost]

It's worked just fine for me...

Fine doesn't equal best.

You would be faster with 6060 gearing.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Are you sure it isn't the axle ratios making the tranny ratios seem bad?

2 - 5 are pretty close to the close-ratio toploader and M22 Muncie ratios, plus a granny gear 1st and an overdrive that's so far away that you don't want to have to use it on the track anyway. Seems like there should be a good axle ratio to work with that.


Norm

I have 3.31's in my 2012 and the gearing is still WAY too short. It makes everything to "busy". I'm constantly finding myself having to grab gear changes in a corner, and more than needed down the straight stuff. Additionally having to kick it up and over to 5th constantly is annoying and a rhythm breaker.

When I was racing I learned to "economize" shifting. In a lot of cases it would feel like I geared too low because things felt lazy. But lap times don't lie. The lazy feel gearing was always faster.

A MT-82 could work, I estimate it would take 2.73's. But the MT-82 is still a hot roded transit van gearbox. I would much rather have a 6060 or T-56.

It's not a big deal in my 2012 because I just screw around in that car. But if I was to get a GT350 it would be to do track days with. And I'm not buying a $50-60K car for track days then swapping the trans out for what I really want.

 

[ArizonaGT]

Fine doesn't equal best.

You would be faster with 6060 gearing.

I seriously doubt it.

MT82 3-4-5 is basically the same as 6060 2-3-4. You're just driving a gear up with the 82.

In most tracks I'm in 3rd gear in the 82 most of the time with 7800 revs to play with. The car gets to 120 (in 4th) very quickly and will walk or run down most other cars past that up to 150 (in 5th).

Anyways that's my opinion and you have yours so let's move on.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

The 13' GT500 track pack cars have a "oil pump" built into the trans to circulate trans fluid to the trans cooler. Pretty trick, I wish my T-56 Magnum had one. I have to run an electric pump.

Bowler and D&D are modifying magnums to accept the TR6060 pump.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Bowler and D&D are modifying magnums to accept the TR6060 pump.

No kidding, I'll have to call Donnie. I'm not planning on pulling my trans anytime soon, but when I do I'll certainly consider that. Donnie is 30min from me.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I seriously doubt it.

MT82 3-4-5 is basically the same as 6060 2-3-4. You're just driving a gear up with the 82.

In most tracks I'm in 3rd gear in the 82 most of the time with 7800 revs to play with. The car gets to 120 (in 4th) very quickly and will walk or run down most other cars past that up to 150 (in 5th).

Anyways that's my opinion and you have yours so let's move on.

I'm not attempting to argue this with you. Just inject a perspective that most people don't have an option of experiencing.

I have spent a lot of time on a lot of different tracks playing with gearing in a quest for faster lap times. Most of the time by playing with final drive ratio's, but from time to time I have had the ability to play with the transmission ratio's at the track. I always had the ability to swap ratio's at home base, but testing at the track same day, same conditions is preferable. Based on that experience I can confidently say that it can be a lot better than a MT-82.

It's not one dimensional either. A person learns how to drive/ride around what they are given to use. They develop techniques/patterns to cope. When the gearing options open up/change different techniques/patterns can be used sometimes to great effect. Changing the gearing up and driving/riding exactly the same will not net the gains one will see form changing the gearing up and then taking advantage of what it has to offer.

I've driven in anger S197's with 3650's, T-56's (pretty much a 6060) and MT-82's. I also have a ton of gearing development under my belt. I don't like the MT-82. As far as I know you have only ever driven that car with a MT-82 in it. And I think it is safe to say you haven't done gearing development in the past. If I'm incorrect I apologies. That said, maybe I have some insight and can draw some conclusions that you can't?

This reminds me of the:

"Eat your brussels sprouts"

"I don't like brussels sprouts, I like broccoli"

"Have you tried brusseles sprouts?"

"No"

Jus sayin.

Additionally. A friend of mine who has a lifetime of track experience just got a S550. He HATES the MT-82's gearing. His word for it is "stupid".

 

[kcbrown]

Even if it has the torque capacity the gear ratios will be junk just like the MT-82. That is THE WORST open track trans that has ever been in a Mustang.

Nothing says they haven't changed the gearing. After all, to handle the power and torque, they've probably had to change how some of the gears are manufactured at a minimum. If they're going to that kind of trouble, it makes sense for them to optimize the gearing at the same time.

Of course, it's possible that their idea of the optimal road course gearing isn't the same as yours...

 

[Conekiller]

I sure hope not! Here is a link to a PDF from Tremec:

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/File/TREMEC_TR-3160.Transmission.pdf

Sounds like another MT-82 type trans, which I hate. Dumb gearing.

If this is the case chalk up another reason why I'm not interested in the GT350. Which sucks, I really wanted to want one.

I did notice that the torque rating, listed at the bottom, for gear ratio option C is a decent bit higher than option A or B. Paired with fords more recent preference for a 3.73 rear gear choice in the performance pack cars and those ratios may be similar to what they're planning on using.

 

[cbass]

The question and response:

Q: Tell us a little about the transmission.
A: It’s a Tremec 3160 transmission that’s been modified fairly significantly to cope with the demands of the flat plane crank engine.

Q: What about the fly wheel and the clutch?
A: It’s got a low inertial dual mass flywheel and two 15-mm dual disc clutch.

I think that last part is a misquote from numbers being words. "two 15-mm dual disc clutch"???
Probably 215mm? That'd be about 8 and a half inches? (correct my math if I'm smoking crack)

 

[Department Of Boost]

Nothing says they haven't changed the gearing. After all, to handle the power and torque, they've probably had to change how some of the gears are manufactured at a minimum. If they're going to that kind of trouble, it makes sense for them to optimize the gearing at the same time.

They won't be changing that 5th is 1:1 and there are four gears under it. That is the main problem with the MT-82.

Of course, it's possible that their idea of the optimal road course gearing isn't the same as yours...

You are in no position to be condescending.

I did notice that the torque rating, listed at the bottom, for gear ratio option C is a decent bit higher than option A or B. Paired with fords more recent preference for a 3.73 rear gear choice in the performance pack cars and those ratios will be crap just like the MT-82.

Fixed^^^

 

[Department Of Boost]

I think that last part is a misquote from numbers being words. "two 15-mm dual disc clutch"???
Probably 215mm? That'd be about 8 and a half inches? (correct my math if I'm smoking crack)

I do math great on crack! I needs me 5 no 10 no 15 mo rocks!

 

[Department Of Boost]

And on that note I'm done. I'm not going to debate this gearing thing anymore. I've tried to do my public service by opening minds to different possibilities. If people don't want to listen, I guess it's their problem not mine.

You can lead a horse to water and all that.