Shitty Texas fuel!

[BruceH]

How is ethanol hurting your car? What mods do you have?

IMO I wouldn't worry as much about being few octane off what your tune as much as putting 10 ethanol in.

 

[BruceH]

My experience with it goes back 34 years, since I've been legal to drive. It doesn't hurt the fuel system at all. In a motor vehicle anyway.

If you use "non ethanol gas" you are getting mtbe as an additive. MTBE will screw your car up.

What problems have you had?

So you're telling me that ethanol doesn't effect the fuel system differently? Uhhhh.... I've seen quite a few examples that would seem contrary... I'm not gonna argue about it though. My experience is different than yours and we get along so I'm not gonna sacrifice that for an internet argument lol.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

My experience with it goes back 34 years, since I've been legal to drive. It doesn't hurt the fuel system at all. In a motor vehicle anyway.

If you use "non ethanol gas" you are getting mtbe as an additive. MTBE will screw your car up.

What problems have you had?

I've seen clogged fuel injectors and lines, pumps with gunk all over and in them, etc.

Whether the e-10 was the cause or not, I've never seen those issues on 100% gasoline vehicles. Not nearly like that.

Also my previous comment about smaller motors in chainsaws and lawnmowers.

But again, I'm not gonna argue about it.

I am curious though, what is MTBE, why do they add it, and why does it mess up your car?

 

[BruceH]

MTBE was used mostly as an octane booster when leaded gas went away. It was also used as an oxygenator. It is still used as an oxygenator in fuels that don't use ethanol as an oxygenator (100% gas).

MTBE will not clean the fuel system like ethanol does. It does leave deposits that over time will affect fuel injectors, o2 sensors, spark plugs, and fuel lines. If you do use mtbe gasoline don't use e10. The ethanol will clean mtbe deposits and accelerate the above mentioned plugging.

IMO ethanol gets a bad rap from those who don't know any better because it cleans the fuel system of mtbe deposits which in turn cause problems.

I don't think you are old enough to remember the days when fuel injectors plugged and sensors went bad quicker than they do today. I have a 2003 pickup that I bought new in 2003. It's always had e10 and still runs great. No gummed up fuel lines or injectors. There was a time when you really did need to run fuel injector cleaner through a tank every so often. That was when the only fuel available had mtbe.

I've seen clogged fuel injectors and lines, pumps with gunk all over and in them, etc.

Whether the e-10 was the cause or not, I've never seen those issues on 100% gasoline vehicles. Not nearly like that.

Also my previous comment about smaller motors in chainsaws and lawnmowers.

But again, I'm not gonna argue about it.

I am curious though, what is MTBE, why do they add it, and why does it mess up your car?

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Perhaps it's those cars that switch from regular to e-10 that I've experienced those issues with.

Actual performance aside, I really don't like that my tax dollars pay for ethanol. It costs more to make per gallon than gasoline and it contains less energy.

 

[BruceH]

The ethanol subsidies stopped over a year ago. They were $.40 per gallon which was a tax deduction given to gasoline blenders for each gallon they blended.

You are seeing actual price on e85, no subsidies. Gasoline itself is still subsidized. I should say the oil companies get subsidies even with record profits.

The energy level depends on what it's used in. A simple measurement like btu isn't a true comparison. Ethanol shines as a motor fuel with higher compression.

Perhaps it's those cars that switch from regular to e-10 that I've experienced those issues with.

Actual performance aside, I really don't like that my tax dollars pay for ethanol. It costs more to make per gallon than gasoline and it contains less energy.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

The ethanol subsidies stopped over a year ago. They were $.40 per gallon which was a tax deduction given to gasoline blenders for each gallon they blended.

You are seeing actual price on e85, no subsidies. Gasoline itself is still subsidized. I should say the oil companies get subsidies even with record profits.

The energy level depends on what it's used in. A simple measurement like btu isn't a true comparison. Ethanol shines as a motor fuel with higher compression.

Uhhh...

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/econo...15-budget-backs-costly-corn-ethanol-subsidies

There's still an ethanol mandate out and about, yes?

And really? You think oil companies are subsidized? I'd like to see some proof of that bold claim because I call BS. The government makes more per gallon of gas than the oil companies because of how high taxes are.

Even when it shines as a motor fuel it still costs more energy to make it than it contains.

 

[stkjock]

Bruce don't forget MTBE's best attribute for health...... ;-)

Mandate doesn't equal subsides

Your link:

The corn ethanol industry has a long history of receiving federal taxpayer subsidies.* One of the biggest subsidies – the $6 billion-per-year Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit*– was finally allowed to expire in 2011 after a Senate amendment to eliminate it offered by Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Tom Coburn, R-Okla., passed by a*73-27*margin. (The underlying bill ultimately failed to pass, but the amendment signaled that the days of the ethanol industry’s rule on Capitol Hill were over). So, the corn ethanol lobby pivoted to maximize taxpayer subsidies and turned to USDA to secure ethanol blender pump subsidies through the rural energy program which was originally designed to promote rural solar, wind, hydropower and geothermal projects. Congress even specifically barred corn ethanol from receiving taxpayer subsidies through it and other energy title programs in the 2008 Farm Bill. But in 2011 USDA began to allow blender pump subsidies to qualify for these payments since efforts to secure more subsidies through Congress were unsuccessful.

 

[BruceH]

If you are really interested do some research. The oil subsidies are for exploration.

It doesn't take more energy to produce than it provides. Just another oil company myth started by a man who wants the earths population to be 1 billion. He blames modern agriculture on the worlds problems and wants to starve the population down to 1 billion.

You can believe whatever you want. The oxygenated mandate is for cleaner air. That's why you will have mtbe in non ethanol fuel. It has worked. Air is measureably cleaner.

I grew up on a farm and know farmers who used homemade ethanol in their tractors. They wouldn't of done it if it was cheaper to use petroleum. Did you know that e98 can be used in a diesel? The motor needs higher compression to utilize it. It also make more power. At least one European city has converted it's busses to run on e98 but I can't recall which one.

You certainly don't have to believe me. I've posted this information enough times that I'd guess most members are sick of reading it. I have provided links, etc. in the past.

I would much rather have my fuel money go to the American farmer than to oil companies or countries that hate us. That's just me though. I've had excellent results with e85 which have been documented here. I would like it to be more available in my area. Maybe with time.

There are some excellent white paper articles on ethanol as a fuel from Universities floating around the internet. The reading is dry but the information is very good.

Uhhh...

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/econo...15-budget-backs-costly-corn-ethanol-subsidies

There's still an ethanol mandate out and about, yes?

And really? You think oil companies are subsidized? I'd like to see some proof of that bold claim because I call BS. The government makes more per gallon of gas than the oil companies because of how high taxes are.

Even when it shines as a motor fuel it still costs more energy to make it than it contains.

 

[stkjock]

Oh and this

Now for the bad news. Less than a month after signing the farm bill into law, the president proposed new subsidies for ethanol blender pumps in his FY 2015 budget proposal. The overall budget was released last Tuesday, with detailed back up documents following in the last few days. Buried on page 158 of the “Analytical Perspectives” document, released Monday, is up to $200 million in new advanced energy manufacturing tax credits for the “construction of infrastructure that contributes to networks of refueling stations that serve alternative fuels,” or in other words, more subsidies for corn ethanol blender pumps and other alternative fuel infrastructure projects. Such is the power of the corn ethanol lobby.

[See a collection of political cartoons on the budget and deficit.]

Those funds are likely also for Nat gas and electrical "supercharging" stations


Liberal bent to that article just drips from the page.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Hahahahaha wow. I've seen it proven in a lab that ethanol contains less energy then it requires to produce it.

I've read dozens of articles written by people with doctorates that have studied this field and work on it for decades.

I'm out.

 

[05yellowgt]

Got news for you, gasoline is a net energy loss too. Every source of energy is...

 

[BruceH]

I seriously doubt that you have. Valero has some good info on ethanol.

All of my research shows differently. At one point enviornmentalists were all for ethanol due to the pollution reduction and self sustaining properties. Once they figured out it was renewable and would allow internal combustion engines to always be around they started all kinds of slanted research.

Hahahahaha wow. I've seen it proven in a lab that ethanol contains less energy then it requires to produce it.

I've read dozens of articles written by people with doctorates that have studied this field and work on it for decades.

I'm out.

 

[one eyed willy]

It's almost impossible to find any pure gas here in Florida, everything is 10%. Damn near impossible to find e85 too,lol

 

[Riptide]

Burning ethanol still produces carbon dioxide afaik. Thats at least partly why its an issue for environmentalists.

Can we even produce enough ethanol to achieve energy independence? I read sugar cane is much better for it than corn but we have limited areas to produce cane in this country. Climate isn't right for it.


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[skwerl]

The US is now the biggest oil producing country in the world and will be for the next 25-30 years.

 

[BruceH]

When the blending subsidies went away so did the tariff on imported ethanol. Shell was running a series of commercials a few months ago about Brazilian ethanol from cane. It looked like they were ready to start installing blender pumps. A blender pump lets you select how much ethanol you want in your gas. I'd really like to have access to E30 and E50.

Burning ethanol still produces carbon dioxide afaik. Thats at least partly why its an issue for environmentalists.

Can we even produce enough ethanol to achieve energy independence? I read sugar cane is much better for it than corn but we have limited areas to produce cane in this country. Climate isn't right for it.


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[Dubstep Shep]

The US is now the biggest oil producing country in the world and will be for the next 25-30 years.

Not to mention we have oil reserves bigger than Saudi... But the government won't let us touch it.

 

[DOFORLIFE]

Why e30 and e50?

 

[crownaviation]

Burning ethanol still produces carbon dioxide afaik. Thats at least partly why its an issue for environmentalists.
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THose dickweeds will always have something to complain about. We could all wear robes and live off the land and one of those idiots would bitch about the length of the robe "you wasted too much material you earth hater". FML..

I love to roast the tires on the highway when I pass a electric shitbox with the obama stickers.. And that just wasted ALL the fucking energy their shitbox supposedly saved all month. And the ONE trip their heros like Gore wasted in their G-V burned more gas than I will in 10 years so all those greenfucks can stick it. Don't get me wrong.. I love that Gore has such a big jet (good for the economy)

I love my e85 and hope nobody fucks that up