St-xta coil overs? Opinions???

jmauld

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Not sure if this is a more recent development due to bad QC, or just more problematic on the S197 chassis when lowered, but as a former vendor I sold over 100 sets of Koni Sports for RX-8s and can only recall two issues being brought to my attention.
Couple of things.

RX8s are a SLA setup, which doesn't put as much stress on the shock as a strut design. Which is what "I" think is the major issue with Koni's and twin tubes in general. The bilstein is inverted, so the side forces are put onto the body of the strut, instead of the shaft.

I agree with what someone else posted earlier, that most people probably don't realize they have a blown damper.
 

sheizasosay

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By no means am I cheerleading here, but rather just stating the facts based on my experience. I have no stake in Koni. I'll be trying a set along with Steeda upper mounts, Ford P springs and FRPP bumpstops on my 2014 come Spring, and continue to have no hesitation about doing so. Hopefully my confidence isn't shattered by failing shocks around this time next year :).
.

Your Konis will probably explode at the alignment shop before you get to the track. Projected hate is powerful.
 

todcp

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If you want non "race car parts, no race car maintenance" and can live without having adjustments, but still have something worlds better then stock. I would go Bilsteins. Large inverted monotubes that can handle the weight of the S197, and have a shortened body allowing for for lowered springs with out loosing travel.

Just be sure to buy the correct Bilsteins. They have a short version and a stock version. The stock height version is the HD. The version for lowered is the Sport. Identical valving but the sport is shortened for lowered cars.
 

DPE

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Your Konis will probably explode at the alignment shop before you get to the track.

I sure hope not, since my alignment shop is my garage!

I like the Bilsteins in concept, but I like adjustability more than worrying about whether a shock is twin tube or monotube. Dare I even bring that up for fear of reigniting that holy war. And I understand Bilstein was having a bit of an issue with the swaybar mounting tab breaking off up front. I never could confirm if it was just one bad part on a highly stressed car with giant swaybars, or if it was indicative of a greater design flaw, but like most things every option seems to have pros and cons. Bilstein customer service was marginal compared to Koni too, at least when I was in the business roughly 7 years ago. Didn't have much trouble with the few sets I sold, but the one problem I did have took longer than it should have to get fixed. That said, it was fixed, and I have no reason to NOT recommend Bilstein. I've just had Konis on an S197 before (along with several other cars), and they treated me well, and I can get them MUCH cheaper than anything else, so can't justify going another route. If they go to crap, I'll eat crow accordingly and try something else.
 

sheizasosay

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Bilstein relaxed on a major opportunity. There is no rebound adjustable "only" strut on the market for a conventional spring other than Koni.



What marketing guru blew that one? How much money do you think is there in Mustang aftermarket suspension?
 

sheizasosay

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Not nearly as much you'd think probably...TK is a BIG company

Get on outta here kitty cat! Seriously, think about everybody that has Koni Yellows and just imagine them as the non-existent Bilstein rebound adj strut.

*Beetles music* Imagine all the Bilsteins. Living...under the hood, who ew ew whooo.

You can say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one who would have dropped money on Biltstein rebound adjustables. Don't sing this part.



Before you ask...yes I have been. :beerdrink:
 
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jmauld

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You can say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one who would have dropped money on Biltstein rebounds adjustables.
I still would. And with these cars getting cheaper, more and more people will be looking for a cheaper alternative to the $3000 kits.
 

DPE

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There is, actually, another rebound-only adjustable damper for the Mustang, and it's cheap. Saw 10 way adjustable twin-tube Strange shocks on UPR's site. I can't believe they are anything too special given the price and the fact they come from a company that predominantly specializes in drag racing, but I'm willing to be proved wrong. By someone else buying them and trying them out :).

http://www.uprproducts.com/2011-mustang-suspension-shocks-struts.html

I too would go for an inverted, shortened, monotube, rebound-adjustable damper with a properly welded strut tab. And I'd even pay a grand or a bit more for the set. Under the assumption it was geared to be OEM replacement and not racecar-esque. But I'm ready to get off this craptastic OEM suspension in the next few months, so barring any new product releases in the very near term, I won't be changing course.
 

todcp

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[/QUTOE] I too would go for an inverted, shortened, monotube, rebound-adjustable damper with a properly welded strut tab. And I'd even pay a grand or a bit more for the set. Under the assumption it was geared to be OEM replacement and not racecar-esque. But I'm ready to get off this craptastic OEM suspension in the next few months, so barring any new product releases in the very near term, I won't be changing course.[/QUOTE]

$1600. Ground Control is not the mono tube on your wish list but their setup does include their own custom shortened Koni Yellow and they help you choose the springs and can change the shock valving for you if your spring choice falls outside what the standard yellow can handle.
I bought the conversion kit with their camber plates as I did not want to lower more than 3/4 of an inch and already had regular yellows of my own. They recommended 430# front and 225# rear on mine for my use in the Instructor group but still street acceptable. Street ride is firm but not harsh even on the crappy N New Hampshire roads. Will not have it on the track until April or May.
 

o2sys

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I think someone asked me, this the lowest for rear on the XTA:

 

csamsh

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:soapbox::deadhorse2:
I too would go for an inverted, shortened, monotube, rebound-adjustable damper with a properly welded strut tab. And I'd even pay a grand or a bit more for the set. Under the assumption it was geared to be OEM replacement and not racecar-esque. But I'm ready to get off this craptastic OEM suspension in the next few months, so barring any new product releases in the very near term, I won't be changing course.

That's AST 4150 or MCS TT1

No matter how much we all want there to be a unicorn set like this- it just doesn't exist. If you want a quality damper, you have to pay for it. When you start adding features, they cost money too.

Also- NO dampers last forever. If you're tracking/autox'ing your car, you probably need to look at the dampers yearly or ever other year, and maybe rebuild. (and probably more often than that, especially RE: gas pressures if you have twin tubes.)

If you're "just" a street car, you don't need adjustability because you're never really transitioning the car at the limits of its grip, which is where adjustable dampers allow you to tune the handling balance. The non-adjustable Bilsteins out there are plenty for any street car IMO
 
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I am Legend

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:soapbox::deadhorse2:

That's AST 4150 or MCS TT1

No matter how much we all want there to be a unicorn set like this- it just doesn't exist. If you want a quality damper, you have to pay for it. When you start adding features, they cost money too.

Also- NO dampers last forever. If you're tracking/autox'ing your car, you probably need to look at the dampers yearly or ever other year, and maybe rebuild. (and probably more often than that, especially RE: gas pressures if you have twin tubes.)

If you're "just" a street car, you don't need adjustability because you're never really transitioning the car at the limits of its grip, which is where adjustable dampers allow you to tune the handling balance. The non-adjustable Bilsteins out there are plenty for any street car IMO

BOOM! Drops mic, walks away....
 

DPE

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I'm not sure what you guys do with your cars, but if you're needing shocks every year or two it's clearly more than I'm doing with mine. For my 5 or so track days per year, annual pilgrimage to the twisties (about a 1000 mile trip, half of which is deserted, entertaining roads), 5k or so of daily driving, and every so often major road trip west, it sure seems like I ought to get a few years out of a set of even average performance shocks like Bilstein or Koni. And historically, I have.

As for MCS and AST, I thought we were talking about race car parts now, with race car maintenance? Which I have zero interest in. It also strikes me as GC would be more fussy in that respect, since it's not really OEM-replacement type stuff. If all I did was drive around town and to and from the track and had time on my hands to pull my car apart every other month, hell yes. I'd call Terry tomorrow (or after my Christmas bonus comes through, anyway) and get my MCS setup in motion. But on a long road trip I just need stuff to work, and what goes on my car needs to be the kind of parts I don't have to worry about when I'm 2000 miles from home.

I think we've got diverging interests here, in terms of what we are talking about. As best I can tell, the ST/KW stuff, Konis and Bilsteins (and Tokico, FRPP, etc.) generally fall into the OEM-replacement category in the sense they're designed for long-term use on the road or track with no real maintenance required. Then you've got the high-end stuff that's a little more fussy, in AST and MCS (and GC, if I had to guess), but is significantly higher quality in the sense that it performs its function in a superior manner. For the OP, and for my own car, I'm in the former camp. A number of you are in the latter.

I think there is a gap in the market for a damper between Koni/Bilstein and AST/MCS. If Bilstein would make a rebound adjustable damper with properly welded strut tabs (if that's actually a recurring issue), there it is. And they wouldn't need to charge $2600+ for a set of those, I don't believe. Probably won't happen, and so be it.

Additionally, even if I didn't ever track my car, I can and do benefit from adjustable damping. Adjustable damping isn't just about adjusting handling balance at the limit. And in my experience that's actually a secondary (or even tertiary?) function of adjustable damping. The first is to adjust the shocks to that sweet spot where the car is well controlled and responsive in aggressive driving yet not so harsh as to be skipping over bumps and losing contact with the pavement. Generally speaking, I have to drive a long way to get to twisty roads from the KC area. So I run shocks fairly soft or full soft on the interstate getting there, and then dial them up when we get to the good stuff. I don't believe that's unusual.

Anyway, some good material in this thread, and I'll certainly be more conscious of the fact that my Konis may well not be as bulletproof as they have been for me historically. To the OP, I'd say the XTA setup sounds great, provided you don't mind being fairly low and you don't mind the possibility of a few squeaks and clunks here and there from the camber plates. If the Konis fail on me, I'll likely move to the KW V3 topped with the Steeda upper mounts and see how that goes. If I can get an ATS-V for my wife in a few years and use it as my road trip car, then I call Terry and properly dedicate the Mustang to the track :).
 

jmauld

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I think there is a gap in the market for a damper between Koni/Bilstein and AST/MCS. If Bilstein would make a rebound adjustable damper with properly welded strut tabs (if that's actually a recurring issue), there it is. And they wouldn't need to charge $2600+ for a set of those, I don't believe. Probably won't happen, and so be it.
Honestly, if bilstein made a height adjustable coilover with no rebound adjustment it would suit most people's needs. Most people that think they need an adjustable shock, really don't. Especially when you consider that it only costs $60 to revalve a bilstein. Versus $150 for Koni, AST etc.
 

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