Stroker build questions

[Hiltsy845]

Are upgraded valve springs necessary as well if using stock heads and cams at 600-650rwhp under 7k rpm?

 

[suprchrgd]

Are upgraded valve springs necessary as well if using stock heads and cams at 600-650rwhp under 7k rpm?

I upgraded to the 26113 comp springs and steel retainers. With the amount of boost you are going to be running. Its a good reassurance that you wont be seeing any valve float.

 

[908ssp]

Boost doesn't contribute to valve float. High revs do.

 

[Hiltsy845]

So, stock valve springs and retainers are ok running 17psi under 7k rpm?

 

[Bobby]

stock retainers are just fine but the springs are where the issue are

 

[sportinawoody]

anything above 6000k on stock valve springs is borrowed time no matter what your power level.

 

[BruceH]

So, stock valve springs and retainers are ok running 17psi under 7k rpm?

I have a feeling this is a rehtorical question but I'll answer anyway.

It looks like you are getting different opinions, lol. Imagine that. I'd put 26113 springs and comp retainers. Livernois or Trick flow springs can reuse the stock retainers but you have to lock out the phasers with those springs. It's alot easier to change springs with the heads off the motor. I've done it both ways and never want to change springs on a motor that's in the car again. Even if you don't plan on changing cams just do it while the motor is out because chances are you will change the cams sometime in the future.

I believe stronger springs help to keep boost in and allow the motor to rev higher. I don't claim to be anything but a hobbiest so that opinion is worth what you paid for it.

 

[Hiltsy845]

Bruce,
Thank you. I always enjoy your input and value your opinion. You approach everything from a logical hobbyist point of view vs. someone that is trying to sell you something or somone that is trying cut corners. You always seem to do your homework before spending unnecessary $$$ but try to do things right the first time.

 

[go302]

Just curious as I would really really love building an engine myself. I've always loved fastening nuts and bolts and disassembling and reassembling things and I love cars, especially the intricacies or car engines. Is assembling a shortblock as simple as it sounds? I mean I know the rotating assembly must be balanced and the rings filed to spec for the cylinders and everything, but surely I can't just have a local machine shop balance the rotating assembly and machine the block and then me put it together. As far as blueprinting goes and checking rod clearances and what not is that absolutely critical? I mean aren't the parts I'm buying designed for these blocks after all? Just questions for you guys that assemble your own shortblocks. Because if it's tha simple I'd like to do it myself. My buddy is looking to build his s2k shortblock soon too, so it would be more cost efficient if we could do it ourselves. Also, I have craftsman clicker-style torque wrenches (in*lb and ft*lb). I store them set to 0 and I'm well aware of how to properly use them. Would these suffice for torquing everything down to spec for an engine build?

 

[BruceH]

I don't think there is much to it. The machine shop does the important stuff like balance and machine. You can be real anal about verifying everything or trust the machine shops numbers. I have a machine shop I trust so that makes it alot easier. I also had them fit the rings. I used Harbor Freight torque wrenches. Verified them against my neighbors certified wrench.

After everything is prepped it's just putting parts together and checking a few things like endplay and torque to turn the crank.

Here's the Ford manual if you haven't seen it before. http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=159&viewfile=Engine.pdf

If I was going after a mega hp motor I'd have a reputable race shop build the motor. But I'm not doing that and I trust my ability to follow written instructions.

 

[05stroker]

I don't think there is much to it. The machine shop does the important stuff like balance and machine. You can be real anal about verifying everything or trust the machine shops numbers. I have a machine shop I trust so that makes it alot easier. I also had them fit the rings. I used Harbor Freight torque wrenches. Verified them against my neighbors certified wrench.

After everything is prepped it's just putting parts together and checking a few things like endplay and torque to turn the crank.

Here's the Ford manual if you haven't seen it before. http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=159&viewfile=Engine.pdf

If I was going after a mega hp motor I'd have a reputable race shop build the motor. But I'm not doing that and I trust my ability to follow written instructions.

Good advise! The only thing I can add is go to the Ford dealer parts dept. and order a Workshop Manual and Wiring Diagram books for you car. It is much better to have them in had then trying to look on the Internet. It was much easier for me this way.

By the way, after my motor was speced and built by Ortigo, it was easy overhauls after that when I tore shit up. If you are doing it all yourself from the start you just need to know the specs you want in advance.

Look at Bruce and myself, we have very different motors in our cars. His is more to factory spec and mine built more to the loose side like a race engine would be built. His most likely has about .014 rod clearance while mine has double that to get the oil out faster. I want things to stay cooler in the short run and still work well for normal driving while I feel Bruce is looking more for a as he calls it "hobbyist" look at it and sticking with what Ford has done hundreds of hours of research on.

Main thing is to set your goal and build for it. I knew all along my car would see 25+ psi when I built it. I know myself better then anyone and knew I would not stop at 800 rwhp. I bought Manley Billet I Beam rods when everyone said they was overkill for my goals. I just know me...

 

[go302]

Thanks guys I appreciate your input. I'm leaning more and more to building myself as I continue to gain knowledge on the subject.

 

[BruceH]

Good advise! Look at Bruce and myself, we have very different motors in our cars. His is more to factory spec and mine built more to the loose side like a race engine would be built. His most likely has about .014 rod clearance while mine has double that to get the oil out faster.

That's a pretty good guess. Just looked at the build sheet and they are from .014"-.016". These rods were sold to me as used Eagle but I think they are just no name China h beams with arp2000 bolts. Had the machine shop check them out before I used them. I didn't have to do anything to adjust the side rod clearance.

Do you want the oil out faster for better cooling?

 

[lethe]

Building your own engine is half the fun. I'll be assembling my shortblock once i get everything back from the machine shop.

 

[05stroker]

That's a pretty good guess. Just looked at the build sheet and they are from .014"-.016". These rods were sold to me as used Eagle but I think they are just no name China h beams with arp2000 bolts. Had the machine shop check them out before I used them. I didn't have to do anything to adjust the side rod clearance.

Do you want the oil out faster for better cooling?

I know a little something about something. LOL

As for the cooling affect, my motors like I said was built buy an old school builder. He explained it all to me a long time ago but this is what I remember. The less time a fluid spends in a heated environment, the less heat is built into the fluid. Just like adding a larger coolant system with more flow. Sure over time it will get just as heated as any other but in the short run it will flow more . Made sense to me for the track. If you have a larger capacity and more flow, the longer time it will take to heat it beyond its limits.

Building your own engine is half the fun. I'll be assembling my shortblock once i get everything back from the machine shop.

And the real fun begins the first time you watch some else make a dyno pull on the motor you built yourself! Hell I thought I was going to throw up on my first one.

 

[go302]

I know a little something about something. LOL

As for the cooling affect, my motors like I said was built buy an old school builder. He explained it all to me a long time ago but this is what I remember. The less time a fluid spends in a heated environment, the less heat is built into the fluid. Just like adding a larger coolant system with more flow. Sure over time it will get just as heated as any other but in the short run it will flow more . Made sense to me for the track. If you have a larger capacity and more flow, the longer time it will take to heat it beyond its limits.



And the real fun begins the first time you watch some else make a dyno pull on the motor you built yourself! Hell I thought I was going to throw up on my first one.

Hahaha you should have seen me at the dyno after I installed my cams. I just knew shit was about to break. I can't imagine how I'd feel before dynoing a motor I built that was about to see 800 horsepower

 

[05stroker]

Hahaha you should have seen me at the dyno after I installed my cams. I just knew shit was about to break. I can't imagine how I'd feel before dynoing a motor I built that was about to see 800 horsepower

First one only saw 700 rwhp, it still doesn't get any easier. Hell, just wait till I do the 27 psi pulls this fall! I may need an extra person there just to video me puking in the trash can while my car is in the background making a 1000 rwhp pull! LOL

 

[Wes06]

I would volunteer to show up. But we'd need a third to record me throwing up in reaction to you throwing up. Lol

 

[05stroker]

I would volunteer to show up. But we'd need a third to record me throwing up in reaction to you throwing up. Lol

Oh , I have kids, we can make mad throw up vids if necessary!

 

[Mike K]

All this puke talk made me think of this.