Maybe I should have saved this for my first post here on the s197 forums, but when you said expensive and symphony i just salivated. My sister was the favorite in the family and my dad rewarded her with a 1985 mustang red black ragtop convertible. She had the car for 10 years, until she traded it for a 95 v6 convertible.
[She use to bully me too until I started lifting weights. I even paid to wash her car.]
Well, I finally got a Mustang, [a high mileage black 05 GT], and I'm happier than a murder suspect who has just been cleared due to lack of evidence, cuz I finally gets to learn me how to build motors!!!!
Since 1985 I wondered what if I researched the heck out of the potential of the motor, and i took my time building the car of my dreams? I plan to sink an unlimited amount of cash in this car, because I want a canyon carver that does 10's. I don't ever plan to sell her either, she keeps me out of trouble.
[I'm already researching the best machinist I can for a stage 2 port on the 3v heads. I have a complete ignition system in mid as well.]
Heck, I read the 3v cylinder article every night, it helps me sleep!!! Im budgeting for part by part every month, then when I have the parts I need, I begin to save up for the build.
But right now, good things come to those who wait.
I wonder the na potential of a 5.3 crank? Imagine if this was Scrooge Mcduck's Mustang, one month a part here, next month a part there....
[EDIT]
What do you think this combo will make with a 290 300 cfm port to a 3v heads?
https://www.trickflow.com/articles/...k-flow-gets-466-hp-out-of-a-ford-2v-mod-motor [edit]
Bowling's Compression Ratio -> HP Calculator
Computation Results:
- Engine Horsepower (peak) is 466
- Old Compression Ratio is 10.2
- New Compression Ratio is 10.5
Computation Results:
- Computed New Engine HP is 470, a 1 percent change
394 est rwhp
If I recall correctly, the FRPP CNC 3v heads had the greatest CFM potential once ported. The problem with porting the factory 3v heads is material. They didn't leave much in the ports to hog out. I think at best a 1mm bigger valve is possible, but at the cost of degrading the integrity of the head, and risk of potentially damaging the head during the porting process if the shop wasn't careful. The FRPP 3v was a new casting, giving the 3v better potential particularly when ported further, though valve sizing was still restrictive. Just the nature of the 3v beast. The 3v has the advantage of being essentially a 2v dimension, saving space under the hood, while trumping its predecessor in flow. Bar the exception of new castings, such as the trickflow 2v heads. Those are monsters in their own right.
I can't recall if Bruce had FRPP heads on his 5.3, nor do I care to dive into the archives to check lol. I want to say they were stock with a port job, but it wouldn't surprise me if he chucked coin for the FRPP's. Not even sure if they're in production anymore. If they aren't, whoever is fortunate enough to have them, may be sitting on gold should they keep them in good shape. I don't think the factory heads will hinder reaching the 500whp mark, so long as they're ported and match the manifold and headers.
The symphony I mentioned was to being purpose built. With a staggering goal of 500whp through a 3v head, everything else has to be hand picked to support making power through that head. From block to internals, choice of intake/manifold/header/exhaust, perhaps a fully custom cam profile, delete as much parasitic drag from the drive belt (custom underdrive, AC delete, P/S delete, electric water pump, slick alternator, and slick idlers). Then you're talking about something that has to rev to the moon, Alice, to the moon. I'm thinking specialized I-beam style rods (can't think of the outfit that makes 'em, they're pricey but lightweight and very strong). Compression will be key too. If I were designing a max-effort NA 3v, damn the pump fuel, this thing has a job to do. Design it to run solely on E-85 or better. Perhaps even a special meth blend. This stuff's gotta run hot, and compression high enough it can't survive on less than 100 octane. Because race car. Several reputable vendors have made 3v manifolds back in the day that were far too short lived. One of them will surely do the trick.
Beyond that, aluminum flywheel and carbon fiber drive shafts should turn light weight wheels and a conservative tires on the dyno rollers. With E-85 keeping combustion temps down, as well as a meth blend increasing air density (via cooling of the air) and adding some extra burn to the fire, such a 3v would be an absolute monster. Even then, the safest bet is to strap 3v heads to the max cubic inch block they'll bolt to and go from there. To my knowledge, that's the 5.3. The 5.4 3v does have more stroke, but the configuration isn't ideal for NA power (being 3.55" bore vs 3.7" bore). It's my opinion that the 5.4 is best suited for power adders, but that's my opinion of all stroker motors.
As for your calculations on the 2v predecessor, 466hp is damn fine for a NA 2v. BruceH has already marked 430whp (485-495hp, adding 12-15% drivetrain loss). So the 2v is still outclassed in the respect, Bruce's engine wasn't purpose built for making NA power, either. He ran a D1SC on it aside from being NA in the end. Pretty sure he was around 9.0-9.5:1 CR as well, running either coyote rods or a forged H beam and all the standard stock trimmings as well (such as the convenience of A/C). His motor didn't even attempt to push the limits. I want to say he was running a Stage 2 Comp Cam as well. While respectable, a custom profile degreed could mean as much as 30-50whp, I'm really not sure without doing all the dry math. The OE 3v heads have some tight limits on cam lift (I think beyond .530 or so is tempting fate depending on the lobe profile and CR). The FRPP's heads are a bit different, coming in with a 1mm bigger intake valve right out of the gate. Not sure what porting gives you, but valve angle is still chancy on a high lift cam. (One of the things that irritate me about flow benching heads, giving that .600" lift reading when there isn't a soul on the planet that has the nuts to put a valve that close to the piston lol. It's CFM you'll never see, but they're letting you know "Hey, if you didn't have valves, this sucker really breathes!" lol).
Finally, I would sooner pluck scrotum hairs out bare handed before I'd put a 2v in a S197. I simply wouldn't give the 2v crowd the satisfaction, or ammo. Even though I have a deep love for the 6.2 2v, and respect for the trickflow 2v, I wouldn't put one in a S197 just the same. If you're gonna do it with a 2v, then it has nothing to do with making NA 3v power, just NA power. At that point, there's better engines available to make gobs of NA power.
