the cause of #8

[RSKtakR]

Where did you buy the plugs from? and what kind of ngks are they? i need some too. Thanks

I would also like to know.. I figure w/ E85, a cooler plug and worst case a Meth/water injection kit, it should help cylinder temps some.

 

[Full_Tilt]

I would also like to know.. I figure w/ E85, a cooler plug and worst case a Meth/water injection kit, it should help cylinder temps some.

... naturally aspirated?

 

[RSKtakR]

... naturally aspirated?

yes..I wouldnt want the meth kit to make power really, just more to lower IAT's, and combustion chamber temps.. waste of time??

 

[Full_Tilt]

yes..I wouldnt want the meth kit to make power really, just more to lower IAT's, and combustion chamber temps.. waste of time??

Totally overkill. E85 would be cool more for the fact that it will make more power than petrol, not for the added octane.
Dont get me wrong, water injection can be used on an NA engine, but theres no reason to do so until youve surpassed what can be done with pump gas.

I dont think thats whats happening here. 11:1 CR is peanuts on a modern engine with a pent roof combustion chamber, quench pads, etc; the idea that 93 octane isnt enough is totally ridiculous. In fact, it shouldnt be difficult to hit MBT with that mild CR and 93 octane, just about any good engine in the past 20 years has been capable of that.
I think the problem we have here is that everybody is getting these little one size fits all "tunes" and nobody is bothering to actually listen for detonation and make sure theyre safe.

Id love to see what the stock tune looks like, and Id love to see what some of these aftermarket tunes look like. Unfortunately it seems in this community nobody is willing to share maps or even discuss tuning because apparently the only people that do tune are competitive shops. So were all out in the cold here.

 

[Mach2burnout]

I've been reluctant to post on any of these threads about the #8 cyl. issue because for one I don't own one of these cars. YET!!! However I am very interested in this because I plan to buy one eventually. Me not buying one has nothing to do with the issue. But, reading all these post in all these threads it seems to me that a lot of guys are running their 93 octane race tune on their cars while Daily driving in traffic, in cities, lots of idling and hot weather, etc. etc. Why? I know that we all mod them to drive em and feel the power, but really the 91 street tune on 93 octane fuel (cause there aint no 91 where I live without looking for it) should give you all you need on your daily driver. Now I can understand the ghost cam tune a little when your cruising, etc. but going back & forth to work, taking the family out to eat, really do ya need that tune in all the time. This may not have shit to do with this issue but maybe it does, I don't know, but I do know this: too high timing + too lean A/F mixture = disaster. THis is on any NA engine, you may get away with it for a 1/4 mile at a time here and there, but DD or prolonged use/abuse and it's over.

 

[Mach2burnout]

Just a ? that i haven't seen ask, Has any of the engines ( i know its only a few) but have any broken at the race track? Or have they all been on daily drivers under DD conditions?

 

[Skunk]

You can get the plugs a couple places. I just went to my local NAPA and asked for NGK pn 6510...grand total was 69.25. Had them the next day. They are the same plugs that BBR sells. I did a ton of digging on this about 3 months ago. I posted my results on moddedmustangs.com. Because the motor is so new, and so many people are timid with it there were barely any responses. I had posted my findings before BBR started listing these as an option...shortly have my posts they showed up on their site as an option for plugs.

Our stock plugs our NGK's as well. Not sure of the number off hand, but I know it's an iritium and a heat range of 6. LTR7IX-11 is the NGK full part number...and if you look at our stock plugs...they are the same plug with a couple exceptions...6 instead of 7 indicating heat range and 13 instead of 11 indicating gap in mm. You just have to add a decimal point to get the actual gap. In standard that's a .051 gap to a .043 gap. I know back in my boosted 4 cylinder days a smaller gap was a good thing...but I was force feeding 30+psi down it's gullet from a Precision 6262. I know NGK does not recommend regapping their plugs, but for the sake of piece of mind I might stretch it out to 1.2mm or .047 for those that want the standard numbers. I regapped my plugs all the time in my L61 without any adverse effects.

 

[CMK720]

Just a ? that i haven't seen ask, Has any of the engines ( i know its only a few) but have any broken at the race track? Or have they all been on daily drivers under DD conditions?

Well probably never know the "real circumstances." People will come on here and say they were doing this but could have been doing something else, you know what I mean? Of course they don't wanna make it look like they did it while at the track or WOT or whatever. Been the story has been those people with the problem that it's under "normal" conditions.

I am also with you on this one, I wanna eventually get a new 5.0 but all this news is a little offsetting. So I'll wait and see how it plays out before spending 30k on a car that'll just blow up in a few thousand miles, or have the transmission grind.

 

[Mach2burnout]

I'm wondering why someone hasn't taken one of these engines that has broken to their local engine builder to do a little investigation. By now everybody knows that if its been tuned it a waste of time to drag it back to FORD begging for forgiveness. So take to the guy who built your 4.6 tear it down and see wtf happened. And that way if it is a weak link in the engine its a private shop doing the investigation. we've all heard what Ford had to say. I would like to hear what an engine building outside FORD thinks.

 

[Skunk]

Well...EVERY plug had the same coloration. A nice rich brown color...just as you would suspect from a well tuned car. I've got Boss Intake Manifold, JLT Intake, Off-Road X pipe. Tuned by Blow By Racing. 93 Octane tune for the aforementioned mods. I am by no means easy on this car either. The only reason it's gotten a break for the last 300 miles is I'm breaking in my Exedy Mach 600/Ram Flywheel Combo. I have not added any spark to BBR's tune. The only change I've made is the idle rpm...set to 800 instead of their 850 and max rev limit...even though I've got the boss manifold, I've still got the standard coyote valvetrain and don't want to push it past 7300...valvetrain is only stock for now. Over the winter and into the spring I plan on upgrading all of that along with the Comp Stage 3 cams. #8 burnout doesn't scare me. I'm shooting for 10's n/a. Car ran a 12.3 w/ a 1.9 60' back in May and that was with a stock intake w/ a k&n drop in. I'm not expecting miracles with the new clutch and intake, but I'm fairly certain I can pull an 11 out of this beast.

One thing to add about e85...you won't need a colder plug w/ e85 as the combustion chamber temps will drop somewhere in the 500 degree range. Did a conversion on a 04 F-150. Had an egt on number 8...saw temps go from 1400 or so cruising down to about 900. At that temp a colder plug would probably hurt you more than help.

 

[WTFchuck]

so what exactly would colder plugs do to help detonation? i see this over a few forums to get colder plugs... ok but why

 

[hamish]

so what exactly would colder plugs do to help detonation? i see this over a few forums to get colder plugs... ok but why

They transfer more combustion heat to the cylinder heads.

 

[Swoope]

I'm wondering why someone hasn't taken one of these engines that has broken to their local engine builder to do a little investigation. By now everybody knows that if its been tuned it a waste of time to drag it back to FORD begging for forgiveness. So take to the guy who built your 4.6 tear it down and see wtf happened. And that way if it is a weak link in the engine its a private shop doing the investigation. we've all heard what Ford had to say. I would like to hear what an engine building outside FORD thinks.

most of the failures seem to have been by people modding beyond there knowledge. and are shocked when something fails, then ford should take care of it.

93 race tune for the street, never on track. why?

beers

 

[ViciousJay]

yes..I wouldnt want the meth kit to make power really, just more to lower IAT's, and combustion chamber temps.. waste of time??

why not just run E85 then

 

[ViciousJay]

so what exactly would colder plugs do to help detonation? i see this over a few forums to get colder plugs... ok but why

A colder plug removes more heat from the combustion chamber than a warmer one. For nitrous, SC, Turbo or highly modifed NA motors the combustion temps rise quicker and you need the colder plug to help compensate. Most auto part stores will not be able to help you.

 

[RSKtakR]

why not just run E85 then

I do run it .. I ran it for over 3k miles with no problems.. I dont want to run it all the time because:

1. In the end your spending more $$ for it because your burning more of it and its doesnt last long, so your having to fill up more often.

2. I still have the stock fuel filter, and that is probably the only part I am worried about having an issue w/ the E85.

I run E85 when I know Im going to take the car out racing and beating on it (every other weekend) and then just run the stock tune w/ 91 pump or whatever when I know I wont be beating on it.

 

[Mishri]

most of the failures seem to have been by people modding beyond there knowledge. and are shocked when something fails, then ford should take care of it.

93 race tune for the street, never on track. why?

beers

modding beyond their knowledge? it's happening on CAI+Tune cars or even Tune only cars, some had exhaust, e-mail tunes. how is that beyond anyone's knowledge? its only happened to a hand full of people anyway not even worth all of these threads made. but your post was just nonsense.

People were taking these cars to Ford assuming there must have been something wrong with the engine because a couple of bolt ons and a tune shouldn't blow up an engine, we've never seen that with any mustang before.

 

[five0three]

how many of these threads is it going to take? i think i have read maybe 15 posts out of ALL of these threads from all the typical forums that are worth a shit. i think it would behoove the mods to compile the useful posts into a sticky. its going to be impossible to categorize anything in these threads because even if its good info, its off topic in this particular thread and therefore almost impossible to search for...

 

[12Kona]

I dont think running the race tune would have anything to do with it. i drove my 03 cobra on the race tune as a DD. hell i drove the car from SC to TX. but then again it was a different motor than our 5.0s.

 

[Skunk]

assuming there must have been something wrong with the engine because a couple of bolt ons and a tune shouldn't blow up an engine, we've never seen that with any mustang before.

I've never seen this on ANY motor. LS1, LS2, LS6, LS7. Those are the motors I've got the most experience with...none of them have had the "What the fuck?" problem like this #8 cylinder thing. Whether it's a handful of people or not...it's still a problem that makes you scratch your head and wonder...how the hell did they manage to fuck that up? Learning from others mistakes would be great...the problem...the people blowing #8 haven't shown the intelligence or funding to tear into it and figure out the problem. I do know this...if I lose #8...I'm calling wiseco, I'm getting that 351 stroker.