Torque Specs
- Thread starter Joeslow13
- Start date
GriffX
Senior Member
Unfortunately, the amount of glue you use plays a role too. Do you use a drop or two or do you drown it. I developed a habit to mark any suspension bolt I touch with a paint marker. So I can see if something changed.
The price of small parts has become a total rip off. I had a blown o-ring at my Mercedes power steering rack. Mercedes wanted 10$ for it, ONE O-ring. So, I tried to get it elsewhere. I could buy a full re-seal set for 45$ or go to the last remaining hardware store for farmers. I went there, bought a set of 4 of these o-rings and got 14 days later the invoice. 20$ for 4 o-rings. I can fully understand that you pay for a 10ct o-ring 1$ or 1,50$ in a local store, but 5 or 10? If a farmers supply shop needs to price you so high, there is something deeply wrong (which reminds me more and more of the former east German socialism with no mom and pop stores, no part supply and re using things till the bitter end).
The price of small parts has become a total rip off. I had a blown o-ring at my Mercedes power steering rack. Mercedes wanted 10$ for it, ONE O-ring. So, I tried to get it elsewhere. I could buy a full re-seal set for 45$ or go to the last remaining hardware store for farmers. I went there, bought a set of 4 of these o-rings and got 14 days later the invoice. 20$ for 4 o-rings. I can fully understand that you pay for a 10ct o-ring 1$ or 1,50$ in a local store, but 5 or 10? If a farmers supply shop needs to price you so high, there is something deeply wrong (which reminds me more and more of the former east German socialism with no mom and pop stores, no part supply and re using things till the bitter end).
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SVT Rider
Member
The suspension bolt area on the S197 is not a torque-to-yield bolt area; however, the service manual still calls out new fasteners here. And there is good reason. There is a lesser known piece in this area which has resulted in broken spindles (search the forums). The strut-to-spindle bolts have oblong "lock nuts" which are meant to be a one-time use nut (and bolt, but that is more up for debate). After the nut and bolt has been torqued, the oval shape of the nut has been expanded to fit tightly around the bolt and is not as oblong/oval on a 2nd use.
Furthermore, Ford revised this particular strut-to-spindle bolt+nut in the later S197 to use the finer thread with a higher torque due to the high vibration area loosening these four bolts. Even with the finer pitch threads and oblong nut design, I have found these loosening over time with track use. Usually a yearly check area prior to track season.
So yeah, TTY is not the only reason a manual calls for new fasteners.
GriffX
Senior Member
I have some special experience with these bolts after I went to a workshop to let them change the struts to Tokicos.
All 4 came loose. But, after I re-torqued them to spec, never had problems. BTW. these flags at the nuts do not hold the 200 Nm, you need 2 wrenches. Tried to get new spec bolts, but, Germany.....
And regarding the change to Tokicos, the nuts for the sway bar links got loose several times, Ford has new longer nuts there too.
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Midlife Crises
Senior Member
A stripe of Blue Lick-Tite on those bolt threads and the 4 on the struts before torquing will solve that coming loose crap.
Autokyrios
Member
Ditto. Pretty much replaced everything not suspension related with ARP bolts. More expensive (especially if you go stainless) but they torque better and don't get fowled up, and in some cases are stronger.
Essentially there's two kinds of fasteners: those that simply screw together, and those that stretch. That's not a precise technical but is good enough for our purposes.
Torque To Yield (TTY) bolts are basically bolts that stretch as you torque them in place. You can kind of think about it like tightening a rope; there's the point at which the line is attached, then you cinch things down till the line is really taught. It's a bit the same. You're using that mechanical deformation of the bolt to lock things together.
The important thing about TTY bolts is that they are designed to stretch when properly torqued, and that means when you take the bolt out, it's not going to tighten correctly with the same torque again. It's already been stretched out. This is why they're often recommended to be replaced (some say immediately, others say you can torque them a couple times before replacing).
So where does that get you? Well, if you try to re-torque a used TTY bolt, the original tightening spec won't be sufficient. So you end up tightening it more, but you don't know if it's good or not because you're basically in the realm of slop at that point.
There's a lot of argument about this because people will just monkey TTY bolts down tighter and tighter each time and claim it's fine because it holds. While that's more or less true, it doesn't resolve the issue that you're basically over-tightening a stretched bolt to some unknown spec and literally hoping it holds. Do people do it? Sure, all the time. Doesn't mean it's right.
Can you get away with it once or twice? Usually. Personally I think Ford/GM are a little overzealous about their bolts on suspension bits. The difference for me when I do it is that I know I'll very likely be re-checking the hardware regularly, so the chances of something working free between checks is lower (note I said lower, not non-existent). These days, I don't have a lot of stock bolts left in my suspension, but for those I do, I have a handful of new spares, and I put in a new one (more or less) each time I muck about.
Another factor to remember is that a harder bolt is not necessarily always better. For example, bolts that are really hard can break under conditions where a softer bolt would have survived. This is one reason why some suspension components use 8.8 bolts instead of 10.9. It helps to have a good relationship with your suspension provider, as they should be able to recommend options if you want to upgrade hardware. So in short the answer is not always to run to the hardest thing you can find.
Also remember that for most cases, a factory bolt is going to be just fine. If you want to spend the money on nicer ARP bolts (guilty I am) fine, but you don't have to. It'll be fine with what the factory spec'd.
Essentially there's two kinds of fasteners: those that simply screw together, and those that stretch. That's not a precise technical but is good enough for our purposes.
Torque To Yield (TTY) bolts are basically bolts that stretch as you torque them in place. You can kind of think about it like tightening a rope; there's the point at which the line is attached, then you cinch things down till the line is really taught. It's a bit the same. You're using that mechanical deformation of the bolt to lock things together.
The important thing about TTY bolts is that they are designed to stretch when properly torqued, and that means when you take the bolt out, it's not going to tighten correctly with the same torque again. It's already been stretched out. This is why they're often recommended to be replaced (some say immediately, others say you can torque them a couple times before replacing).
So where does that get you? Well, if you try to re-torque a used TTY bolt, the original tightening spec won't be sufficient. So you end up tightening it more, but you don't know if it's good or not because you're basically in the realm of slop at that point.
There's a lot of argument about this because people will just monkey TTY bolts down tighter and tighter each time and claim it's fine because it holds. While that's more or less true, it doesn't resolve the issue that you're basically over-tightening a stretched bolt to some unknown spec and literally hoping it holds. Do people do it? Sure, all the time. Doesn't mean it's right.
Can you get away with it once or twice? Usually. Personally I think Ford/GM are a little overzealous about their bolts on suspension bits. The difference for me when I do it is that I know I'll very likely be re-checking the hardware regularly, so the chances of something working free between checks is lower (note I said lower, not non-existent). These days, I don't have a lot of stock bolts left in my suspension, but for those I do, I have a handful of new spares, and I put in a new one (more or less) each time I muck about.
Another factor to remember is that a harder bolt is not necessarily always better. For example, bolts that are really hard can break under conditions where a softer bolt would have survived. This is one reason why some suspension components use 8.8 bolts instead of 10.9. It helps to have a good relationship with your suspension provider, as they should be able to recommend options if you want to upgrade hardware. So in short the answer is not always to run to the hardest thing you can find.
Also remember that for most cases, a factory bolt is going to be just fine. If you want to spend the money on nicer ARP bolts (guilty I am) fine, but you don't have to. It'll be fine with what the factory spec'd.
The ARP flywheel bolts are 70lbs ft torque for general knowledge, just fitted a set on mine on Friday. My mains are ARP too, did anyone else find it hard to source fords own bolts that weren't crazy overinflated prices from third party's? The rod bolts I used were genuine Ford which cost me $151 in total from Tasca, wish id bought ARP instead but they were out of stock in Rock Auto at the time. The ARP bolts actually work out cheaper or as cheap in most cases for me compared to what genuine ford bolts I could find and so much simpler to use.
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