UCA - Worth while?

[Ivan 5.0]

Hoping for a bit of advise guys/gals. I just ordered a set of Maximum Motorsports XD Rear LCA's and will be installing those soon. Should I also upgrade the factory UCA and mount while I'm at it?

I emailed MM and they recommended the Roush bracket/arm. Any reason as to why?

I just want something that works well with my setup and goals. My current suspension setup is as follows:

• Steeda Sport Springs
• Koni Sport Struts/Shocks
• Maximum Motorsports Panhard Rod
• Maximum Motorsports Caster/Camber Plates
• (oh, and I have a DSS 1-piece driveshaft)

The car currently has ~430WHP and I may be going FI in the next year or so. It is mainly a spirited, weekend driver that I will take to a road coarse 2-3 times/year.

Thanks in advance!

 

[jayman33]

Did you get LCA Relo brackets? It does help on lowered cars especially with a 1 piece DS but if you're not vibrating you should be alright.

 

[4.6fan]

you wont notice the uca on a road course but if your planning on going FI you should do the uca

 

[CCS86]

I'd definitely recommend it. It will keep the rear end geometry straight when launching and exiting slower corners

 

[Ivan 5.0]

I'm curious as to why MM recommended the Roush, say - over the Steeda or Whiteline?

Did you get LCA Relo brackets? It does help on lowered cars especially with a 1 piece DS but if you're not vibrating you should be alright.

No, I did not get relo brackets - I feel absolutely no vibration (its a CV style 1 piece).

you wont notice the uca on a road course but if your planning on going FI you should do the uca

Thanks for the insight. Why do you say you wont notice the uca on a road course but I should if I go FI?

I'd definitely recommend it. It will keep the rear end geometry straight when launching and exiting slower corners

Thanks. Do you have an aftermarket piece?

 

[DRock]

you wont notice the uca on a road course but if your planning on going FI you should do the uca

Bull! Going from a busted upper shitty rubber bushing to either a solo or poly bushing you will notice especially going hard through a corner

 

[CCS86]

Yeah, I have a Spohn del sphere uca. I changed it alone and it is a big difference. It has a bigger influence on axle wind-up than the LCAs do.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Norm Peterson]

Bull! Going from a busted upper shitty rubber bushing to either a solo or poly bushing you will notice especially going hard through a corner

Of course a busted bushing isn't going to feel right, no matter whether it's a busted OE rubber bushing or a torn poly one. Not even as good as a brand-new shitty rubber bushing, for that matter.

I think the point was that the 3rd link is esssentially uninvolved where cornering axle geometry is concerned. Where actual dynamic behavior is concerned, UCA bushing firmness mostly affects wheelhop situations. I suppose that if you get picky enough, too much of the "wrong" stiffnesses in UCA bushings will also add some unexpected/unintended rear roll stiffness and indirectly affect cornering that way.

Sure, you can expect to feel the difference, as anything that reduces axle windup gives the application of power a more immediate feel. Just how much that matters on corner exit during HPDE is debatable (where having just a little compliance might actually be preferable for most drivers).


Norm

 

[Ivan 5.0]

I think the point was that the 3rd link is esssentially uninvolved where cornering axle geometry is concerned. Where actual dynamic behavior is concerned, UCA bushing firmness mostly affects wheelhop situations. I suppose that if you get picky enough, too much of the "wrong" stiffnesses in UCA bushings will also add some unexpected/unintended rear roll stiffness and indirectly affect cornering that way.

Sure, you can expect to feel the difference, as anything that reduces axle windup gives the application of power a more immediate feel. Just how much that matters on corner exit during HPDE is debatable (where having just a little compliance might actually be preferable for most drivers).


Norm

Sounds similar to the exerpt below from http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm#Rear

"If you use your car in open track or autocross competition, you'll probably want to leave the stock upper control arms alone and install only new lower control arms. The stock rubber bushings in the upper arms continue to allow the axle to articulate through its full range of motion in turns, while the new lower arms improve axle location"

I wonder if MM recommended the Roush UCA because it does have that little compliance with its bushing?

 

[Whiskey11]

Sounds similar to the exerpt below from http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm#Rear

"If you use your car in open track or autocross competition, you'll probably want to leave the stock upper control arms alone and install only new lower control arms. The stock rubber bushings in the upper arms continue to allow the axle to articulate through its full range of motion in turns, while the new lower arms improve axle location"

I wonder if MM recommended the Roush UCA because it does have that little compliance with its bushing?

The only issue with the Miracerros link is that he is talking about the Fox/SN95 cars with the triangulated upper control arms. That quadra-bind setup, as it is so lovingly called, requires stupid soft bushings to reduce the amount of bind in the set up during body roll just to make the car safe to drive. Firming up the bushings just adds more bind and making them solid with spherical's/rod ends transmits all of the torque to the relatively weak torque boxes and should they ever bottom out you can kiss those torque boxes completely goodbye!

The S197's singular UCA does not "bind" in the same sense that the triangulated UCA's do on the previous gens and any multipiece poly bushing that can articulate more than 10º or so is most likely going to allow enough axle articulation to not add too much roll resistance in body roll. Of course it is better to side with caution and allow as much articulation as possible which is why people either go to the spherical/spherical set up at both the chassis side and the diff side for the hardcore race set up or they go poly at the chassis and spherical at the axle to allow proper articulation while reducing some of the NVH going to the chassis on "street" setups. The last thing people do is leave it stock which is kind of obvious!

Me, I'm kinda torn. When the diff bushing on mine starts getting bad I may just replace it with another stock bushing if I can find them rather than go to the Energy multipiece poly bushing. I can't go to the spherical diff bushing because of class rules and obviously I would upgrade the UCA and mount while everything is off.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Just a word of caution - of all of the rear suspension parts we have tested on our 2011 GT, replacement UCAs were the most troublesome and noisiest items for street use. Sure, if your UCA bushing is worn out replace it, and getting an adjustable length upper arm is helpful for re-setting the pinion angle on a lowered car. But you can do the same adjustment with adjustable lower control arms, and these are significantly easier to install/tighten/adjust. And these replace a stamped steel arm that has lots of flex with a stronger, tubular unit.

For some reason the various aftermarket rear Upper Control Arms and mounts have a tendency to loosen up and make noise in a very short amount of time. No matter how you torque the bolts or use loctite it still happens, and drives me nuts. And you have to pull the back seat out to get to the UCA mounting bolts each time. It is a constant hassle - one that we have been fighting for 2 years. We've used 3 different brand UCAs and they all seem to do it.

The only one that stays tight and quiet is the stock piece.

Will changing the upper bushing or arm alone make a noticeable difference in handling, or forward bite at the drag strip? Not really, no. This is one of those items that everyone makes because... lots of people ask them to. If the aftermarket has its way you will replace every single part on your S197 with some pricy part. Sure, some of the stock components have massive compromises, or are cheap and do have issues. I'm just saying that the stock UCA isn't one of them.

Want to make your Mustang rattle and clang over the smallest of bumps? Swap out to these parts above!

You know what UCA the $85,000 Boss 302-S factory race car comes with? The same rubber-bushing equipped unit that a regular Mustang GT has. Things that make you go HMMM....

If you want to do something in the rear suspension that actually makes a difference, install adjustable rear LCAs, then go ahead and add in some lower relocation brackets as well, if your car is lowered. These brackets change the pick-up points and the rear geometry for the the better (the 302-S does come with these parts), and actually fixes a known problem in rear suspension geometry, and WILL make a difference in handling and forward bite (changes anti-squat).

Remember: There are a ton of aftermarket parts, and these manufacturers and shops are trying to sell you everything and the kitchen sink. They'd all love for you to buy one of everything... hell, so would I! But honestly, not every single bolt-on bolt-on suspension doo-dad is worth installing. Sometimes doing the research, watching what S197 race teams are actually using and finding out why, will save you time/money/hassle/noise on the street.

Some parts are available simply... because someone will buy them, and by putting these on you are just adding weight and lightening your wallet. I'm certain somebody will come on and defend their favorite UCA to the death, and I guess getting the rubber bushing out has some small benefit to the most extreme race cars... but if you drive on the street just know it will likely be a constant noise generator and hassle. I doubt anyone can definitely prove a value of an aftermarket UCA - I welcome them to try. We've swapped between aftermarket and stock UCA+mount so many times, and it never seems to make a difference in any of the dozens of races we've done.

Good luck,

 

[Ivan 5.0]

Fair - thanks much for your insight.

If you want to do something in the rear suspension that actually makes a difference, install adjustable rear LCAs, then go ahead and add in some lower relocation brackets as well, if your car is lowered. These brackets change the pick-up points and the rear geometry for the the better (the 302-S does come with these parts), and actually fixes a known problem in rear suspension geometry, and WILL make a difference in handling and forward bite (changes anti-squat).

Would you recommend lower relocation brackets for a car that is lowered 1.25" in the rear? I just purchased adjustable rear LCAs.

Sure, some of the stock components have massive compromises, or are cheap and do have issues. I'm just saying that the stock UCA isn't one of them.

You know what UCA the $85,000 Boss 302-S factory race car comes with? The same rubber-bushing equipped unit that a regular Mustang GT has. Things that make you go HMMM....

We've swapped between aftermarket and stock UCA+mount so many times, and it never seems to make a difference in any of the dozens of races we've done.

Hmmm... another guess as to why MM does not make an aftermarket UCA, and the one they do recommend when asked is similar to stock (Roush)

 

[BMR Tech]

Good post Terry.

I do have a few questions for you.

Due to your issues with the parts you mentioned, why did you not atleast try a version of the arm that is non-adjustable? This is the arm that seems to be most popular for my corner carving customers:

When you say that they loosen up (UCA-UCM), and you have to remove the rear seat, what exactly are you saying? Not only do I rarely get that complaint, but if the jam nut does loosen, it is a simple process to put the car up in the air, re-adjust length, and tighten. Why is removing the seat coming into play here? This could possibly have something to do with the style of adjuster too, as you can see, ours is by far the beefiest version that provides the most friction surface when Torqued:

There is no doubt that the LCA and Relocation brackets will and DO make the best improvements of any of the rear suspension modifications, when staying with a factory style system.

There is also no doubting the fact that a more stable rear axle is always better than a less stable rear axle, on any car for any given situation.

It is a proven fact that you can eliminate wheel hop on an S197 chassis by replacing the UCA and UCM. I rarely recommend that route, because I surely side with what you are getting across to the readers on your post, however, upgrading them does have its advantages.

 

[BMR Tech]

Would you recommend lower relocation brackets for a car that is lowered 1.25" in the rear? I just purchased adjustable rear LCAs.

Hmmm... another guess as to why MM does not make an aftermarket UCA, and the one they do recommend when asked is similar to stock (Roush)

I am not Terry, but I think anyone that knows the basics about suspension would probably recommend LCA Relocation Brackets for your car. Of course, you will still get people who swear they do not help, but there is a reason when it went from just BMR making them, to just about every suspension company on the planet making them.

Your AS% probably dropped to somewhere in the 75% range, and I typically recommend around 105% (+/- 15%) for a corner carving combo, dependant upon track and weather conditions. Ironically, that AS% is also one of the best overall setting for drag racing, imagine that!

MM recommends the Roush system for a good reason. That arm features a higher durometer bushing with more mass, so you are still effectively "upgrading" the rear UCA System. That arm/mount combo is a very mild upgrade, but it is "just enough" to show an improvement in most conditions.

 

[sheizasosay]

Bonestock mustang, no changes, what is the % anti-squat?

 

[Whiskey11]

Terry I'm assuming that the the UCAs you tried includes the stock one? I only remember reading about the UMI with UPR (cause of problem?? ) mount and the Whiteline one.

I can't say I agree with the adjustable lowers being a good idea on the grounds of how critical it is that they be the same exact length. For a shop that does suspension work our race teams that understand that need it is probably a non issue but for the average enthusiast there is a certain amount of "ehh good enough" when just good enough isn't good at all for this suspension component.

I'm also surprised to hear that the Whiteline unit is making noises. Something Jared probably should find out so he can fix it. I would be interested to hear from people using the BMR and Steeda units with the dedicated poly bushings rather than a delrin raced spherical berating/rod end and whether that UPR mount contributed to the problem.

 

[Ivan 5.0]

Thanks everyone for providing feedback and sharing their insight. All of these posts are making my head hurt. LOL! But I'm learning

At this point I think it will be safest to install the aftermarket RLCA's, and snap a pic of the angle to see if the relo brackets would be beneficial.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Just a word of caution - of all of the rear suspension parts we have tested on our 2011 GT, replacement UCAs were the most troublesome and noisiest items for street use.

For some reason the various aftermarket rear Upper Control Arms and mounts have a tendency to loosen up and make noise in a very short amount of time. No matter how you torque the bolts or use loctite it still happens, and drives me nuts.

That's one of the reasons why I'm not a fan of on-car adjustable links/arms. I have a couple of ideas why they might keep loosening.

I now have off-the-car adjustable LCAs, and while you do have to unbolt one end in order to adjust them it's not a big deal and you probably won't have to do that more than once (when you discover that your steering wheel has shifted its central position by a few degrees). But even if the jam nuts on off-car adjustables do loosen, the length adjustment can't be lost like it can when a left and right hand thread piece in the middle is free to rotate (and keep shifting the adjustment) without anything to positively stop it.

I would look for the same approach in the UCA if I ever decide to swap that one for some reason.

The price of adjustment convenience appears to be a demand for more rigorous maintenance.


Whiskey - I did have to adjust one of my LCAs specifically to re-center the steering wheel. One full turn shorter on the passenger side LCA took care of it. That was after matching each adjustable LCA length individually to the OE LCA it replaced.


Ivan - from measurements I made on my own car, I get just over 31% antisquat with a 185 lb driver oin board. If you want to maintain the axle steer right where it's at there (which is pretty neutral), you'd want the relocated holes for a 1.25" drop to be pretty close to 1-3/16" down from where they are as OE. A-S goes up to about 64%.


Norm

 

[Whiskey11]

Norm you know better than I do. I'm curious; have you had your alignment checked for any steer ahead from the rear after installing the lower control arms? I find it hard to believe that the suspension pick up points on these cars are that far off where lengthening a control arm would be necessary short of having a car involved in an accident. I figured having the same length of arms was necessary to proper roll steer characteristics where having one longer would upset that geometry and introduce bind or different handling biases for each direction of travel.

 

[DILYSI Dave]

No experience yet on the S197. I will say this though - I've never put a spherical bearing on a car that I then wished I had poly instead.