Uncovered the Mystery Behind Aftermarket COPs...

[AutoXRacer]

So, I have been speaking with MSD on their coils. I have always been a fan of aftermarket ignition systems. MSD has always been my favorite, specifically the 6AL with a blaster coil. lol

Anyway, after reading numerous failed attempts with our cars and installing/running MSD COPs and countless rejections from my tuner telling me to not run them, I decided to talk to MSD and ask what was up with their coils.

So, people running NA motors have had good results; better starting, idling, etc.

But for those of us running blown motors, these coils do not work; results in spark blowout.

So, according to MSD, in order to run these in a blown motor, you need additional equipment.

For our setup we need the following:
MSD PN62152 - DIS-4 Plus Distributorless 4 Channel (quantity 2 x $600 = $1,200)
http://www.msdignition.com/Products...MSD_DIS-4_Plus_Distributorless_4_Channel.aspx

MSD PN89121 - Dual Ignition Adapter for Ford Coil-on-Plug (quantity 4 x $80 = $320)
http://www.msdignition.com/Products...l_Ignition_Adapter_for_Ford_Coil-on-plug.aspx

Grand total: $1,520

Here is how they are wired:

Quite an undertaking... sigh

And no, I am not planning on doing this to my car. I have no room for more stuff. lol Would be nice if you could install all of this in the trunk, but these ideally need to be as close to the engine bay as possible.

Just thought it would be nice to share why these coils by themselves do not work in our blown applications.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Or you could just use the stock coils?

 

[AutoXRacer]

Or you could just use the stock coils?

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Thats our only choice right now unless you want to spend close to $2,000. sigh

I just hate having to run such small gaps on spark plugs to avoid spark blowout.

Running a larger gap will do wonders for driveability, fuel economy, and not to mention power!! Being able to completely burn 100% of the fuel being injected into the cylinders would be priceless!!

 

[BMR Tech]

http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Accessories_pg/Boost A Spark/layouts/boostaspark.htm

Stock coils and a BAS. It has worked well for me, on several cars.

 

[AutoXRacer]

http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Accessories_pg/Boost A Spark/layouts/boostaspark.htm

Stock coils and a BAS. It has worked well for me, on several cars.

How does this wire up? It says its boost or vacuum activated.
Why can't it be on all the time to improve startup, idle, etc...

 

[BMR Tech]

How does this wire up? It says its boost or vacuum activated.
Why can't it be on all the time to improve startup, idle, etc...

You may want to call them. If you have issues due to spark, on start and idle...I'd be investigating. That isn't right.

The goal of the BAS is to activate better spark at WOT/Boost.....where the common spark issues are seen most.

You may be able to wire it up differently.

You should call KB to discuss.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I don't have issues... Just want a stronger, hotter spark to burn fuel completely.

I'm sure the better spark would show benefits at start-up, idle, cruise, etc.

Thanks Kelly.

 

[BMR Tech]

I don't have issues... Just want a stronger, hotter spark to burn fuel completely.

I'm sure the better spark would show benefits at start-up, idle, cruise, etc.

Thanks Kelly.

I would rely on your tune to do that.

Then I would rely on the BAS to utilize a larger gap, better burning etc. at WOT.

Thinking outside the box.....if you installed a BAS, and were able to run a wider gap, substantially, then your start up and idle will improve.

My opinion, "increasing spark" for start up and idle won't really lead to any noticeable improvements.

 

[JeremyH]

For that coin, better off just running a bas like mentioned.

Also the solid cop connectors vice the oem spring connectors are a decent and cheap upgrade, ensures a solid connection from cop to plug for good spark energy.

I would only look into these mods if you having trouble with spark blow out and gaps on your setup though.

I don't have issues... Just want a stronger, hotter spark to burn fuel completely.

I'm sure the better spark would show benefits at start-up, idle, cruise, etc.

Thanks Kelly.

Run a hotter plug and gap them tighter is another option. I went back to stock heat range plugs at my current power level.

How does this wire up? It says its boost or vacuum activated.
Why can't it be on all the time to improve startup, idle, etc...

You can wire it up different ways just like a bap.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Thats our only choice right now unless you want to spend close to $2,000. sigh

I just hate having to run such small gaps on spark plugs to avoid spark blowout.

Running a larger gap will do wonders for driveability, fuel economy, and not to mention power!! Being able to completely burn 100% of the fuel being injected into the cylinders would be priceless!!

If you want fuel economy use a stock t-stat, stock heat range plugs and let the car run at oem operating temps. And run a power adder with a better bsfc. I'm getting 30+ mpg on the highway on 93 with the above mentioned system.

 

[eighty6gt]

I'm running one step colder plugs with my maxed out M90. If I go to ~500rwhp with the 1.9 TVS next year, I can go back to stock plugs?

This would be sweet.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Thats our only choice right now unless you want to spend close to $2,000. sigh

I just hate having to run such small gaps on spark plugs to avoid spark blowout.

Running a larger gap will do wonders for driveability, fuel economy, and not to mention power!! Being able to completely burn 100% of the fuel being injected into the cylinders would be priceless!!

If you could do that, you'd accomplish a goal automakers have been striving after for a looooooong time. And you'd be really, really rich.

 

[AutoXRacer]

If you could do that, you'd accomplish a goal automakers have been striving after for a looooooong time. And you'd be really, really rich.

Thats what the MSD 6AL and a blaster coil with good spark plug wires, spark plugs, and rotor and cap do!!

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Thats what the MSD 6AL and a blaster coil with good spark plug wires, spark plugs, and rotor and cap do!!

I doubt they burn 100% of the fuel in the cylinder without EGR or anything like that. Close, but it becomes exponentially harder to reach 100% the closer you get to it.

 

[eighty6gt]

That's debatable, regarding spark improvements leading to improved combustion. Probable mathematically, but that it actually makes a noticeable difference, that is folklore or spark plug company advertising. I'd like to see the ford spec for the 3v vs the GT500 coils. Spark plug info. Eh... maybe one day.

I think it's time to stop turning over stones! The car runs, drives, and makes good power. How many miles will go on it per year?

 

[AutoXRacer]

That's debatable, regarding spark improvements leading to improved combustion. Probable mathematically, but that it actually makes a noticeable difference, that is folklore or spark plug company advertising. I'd like to see the ford spec for the 3v vs the GT500 coils. Spark plug info. Eh... maybe one day.

I think it's time to stop turning over stones! The car runs, drives, and makes good power. How many miles will go on it per year?

Your right, but I always wanted to know why the MSD or other brand coils would not work in our blown applications. MSD confirmed you need to add the DIS-4s...

Not sure how many miles, as much as I can. lol
Last year I did 10,000 miles.

 

[KillrStang]

interesting read! I had spark blow out issues back when I first went turbo and shortly after put stock coils back in. 2k is a bit much for probably minimal gains. if I run into spark blow out again ill change over to the thicker power wires or BAS. nice find autox!

 

[BruceH]

It looks like another solution to a non existent problem. The Ford parts are better than any aftermarket crap you can throw at it imo. Ranks right up there with e3 spark plugs.

If you really want to pursue this look into using LS coils from a GM motor.

Your right, but I always wanted to know why the MSD or other brand coils would not work in our blown applications. MSD confirmed you need to add the DIS-4s...

Not sure how many miles, as much as I can. lol
Last year I did 10,000 miles.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I've run my MSD coils to 23.5psi with no issue. They have been on there since 2007.

 

[8306gt]

How does this wire up? It says its boost or vacuum activated.
Why can't it be on all the time to improve startup, idle, etc...

I have my KB BAS wired to supply 17 volts to the factory coils. It has been that way for the past couple of years, or about 30,000 miles without issue.

 

[JeremyH]

I'm running one step colder plugs with my maxed out M90. If I go to ~500rwhp with the 1.9 TVS next year, I can go back to stock plugs?

This would be sweet.

Yes I would, under 500rwhp, 10psi or less stock heat range plugs are just fine.